Contributors

Monday, March 26, 2007

If I Were A Traitor

It seems that yours truly has had his patriotism questioned recently. This has happened in the past and I have always thought of the Mark Twain quote which Bill Maher uses in the above speech.

"Patriots support their country all time and their government when it deserves it,"

It's funny that this has come up because I was all set to write a column about the ever growing list of laws that Bush Co has broken and why they aren't considered traitors.

Oh, well. Bill beat me to it, as usual. Don't forget to check out the video below from Congressmen Patrick Murphy as well.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

No fucking shit, Mark. Do you think this is news to anyone? I am sick and tired of all the jokes about the Nazi Corps that running our White House. When is someone going to do something about these fucks instead of tell jokes?

They should all be in prison but it will never happen because too many people in this country have their heads so far up their asses that they have lost the capacity for rational thought. Mark, you need to stop being so nice to these people, trying to find common ground, and do to them what they very much want to do you everyday: fuck up their lives! The time for being a pussy is over and done with. These assholes changed the rules and they need to learn--the hard way--as ye have sewn so shall ye reap.

Anonymous said...

...thanks "eddie"...that certainly sounded rational... ...so what; you're calling for armed revolt? I don't think a bunch of commie pinko metrosexuals like yourselves would do so well. Best stick to the jokes where it's safe.

…looking forward to seeing you on TV at the next anarchists' demonstration being carted away in your 'Che' t-shirt…

Mark Ward said...

Eddie, sometimes the ridiculous is funny. I don't mind the jokes especially if they relate to the 29 percent of this country that think Bush is doing a good job when the facts are to the contrary...now that is funny and sad.

Joe,

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes of revolutionary act."

George Orwell

Anonymous said...

All of the people involved in publically identifying Valerie Plame as a CIA officer should go to prison. Those people are:

Richard Armitage
Robert Novak
Karl Rove
Lewis Libby
Dick Cheney
Judith Miller
Matthew Cooper
Walter Pincus

They committed treason. It is very clear, very plain, and very simple.

johnwaxey said...

I can not advocate for hurting other people because of their beliefs, at least not in the way that eddie seems to be implying. However, I can also relate to the frustration that eddie is expressing as I had many daydreams that involved burning local and federal Republican candidate election signs in the past two elections. However, as it turns out, I didn't need to do anything as many of the criminal Republicans have done a fair job of burning down their own houses. I resigned myself to letting the Republicans do as they will and at the end of it all, the American people will be the judge of what was accomplished. I just want to make sure that I don't hear one fucking complaint regarding the first 6 years of the Bush administration from the people who have supported them.

As for Valerie Plaime...there is absolutely no doubt who outed her and what the punishment should be. Given that though, look back to Watergate and the effect that had on this country. It sharply divided the nation and revealed publicly the rot that was eating the government from the inside out. The simple truth of the matter is that nothing is going to happen to Bush or Cheney because this nation will not tolerate another scandal of that magnitude. The democrats will not push for it because in the end, it will undermine their power in the sense that people in this country will come to the inevitable conclusion that government is inherantly flawed and full of corruption, so why should they listen or be governed by anyone. No one really wants the impeachment of Bush and Cheney because we as a society, we will be unable to deal with the fall-out. This is not about someone getting their cock sucked in the oval office and denying it (oh, the shame of it...and think of what the missus had to say!), this is about sending American troops into a war that was not necessary to be put in harms way. Several thousand have not come home alive. Bush and Cheney and Wolfowicz and Rumsfield WILL take responsibility for this, just not in their lifetime. For those of you who have been in on this blog from the beginning and even before it was a blog, I have been 100% on nearly every thing I have said about the war and this administration...here's another gem for everyone to consider...history will judge this administration as the worst in modern history in regards to corruption and committing illegal and immoral acts. Give it a couple decades.

As for you joeanonymous...patriotism comes in many forms and flavors, not just in definitions from online dictionaries. Sometimes we have to be critical of something we love very dear, ly for its own sake. Just as you might point out the error of a child's behavior to protect it from making mistakes as an adult, there has been alot of criticism on this blog in hopes that someone's mind changes and fights against the people who are making poor decisions that affect everyone. It doesnt make Markadelphia or Truthgirl or you unpatriotic. It makes them concerned citizens, something that you should be happy about. Apathy is what eventually destroys the great civilizations, you should rage against it whatever form it takes and whether it is contrary to your opinion or not.

Anonymous said...

President Bush has spent 500 billion dollars on the war in Iraq so far. What would the world be like today if President Bush had finished the war in Afghanistan and actually defeated Al-Qaida instead of glowing their ember?

The United States would have a reputation for finding a problem and fixing it. Afghanistan might be an example of an Islamic democracy and without war. Most National Guard soldiers would be home. All those tax dollars would have been working in the US Economy instead of being distributed in paper bags from pallets Iraqi warehouses or in the offshore accounts of KBR and Hailliburtion.

The Bush White House turned 9-11 into a 7-Eleven, and they're in there with the only ATM card that works, drinking slurpies, playing craps, and snacking on the American future. Just hoping that there's something left in two years.

Anonymous said...

Greg...well, what can I say that I've not said before. Mom always said, "always wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people."

Saying that the war in Iraq is a distraction from the War on Terror in Afghanistan is like saying the war in Germany was a distraction from the greater war on fascism.

Catching Bin Laden is important, but what would happen if we caught him? Bush would get a temporary lift in the polls which you wouldn’t like, but would you then suggest that since we got him, it’s over and we should bring all the troops home from everywhere?

Is the “War on Terror” a police action in which it’s essentially over once we catch the bad guy or is it in fact a real war against an enemy that will continue to fight long after its leader has been captured?

Mark Ward said...

Joe,

Face facts. Your classic defense of when anyone puts unpleasant truths in your face is to call them crazy. Greg is 100 percent accurate in everything he has said.

Got a little story for you, buddy. In 1943, a brash Senator called up President Roosevelt and told him that he thought that some American companies were profiting off the war. This senator felt that if women were giving up their undergarments to be sewn into parachutes, then corporations in this country should be making sacarfices as well. Roosevelt gave him the go ahead to investigate.

The senator found that there was profiteering and stopped it. In fact, some people went to jail for treason. That senator's name was Harry Truman and he became the next president of the United States. Now, can you imagine if...say...Russ Feingold called up George Bush and accused Halliburton of profiteering?

A chuckle and then nothing.

Your comparisons to WWII are offensive. Corporations back then were serving our country. Now they are serving themselves.

Fact: KBR/Halliburton have "lost" 9.5 billion dollars in Iraq.

Fact: Halliburton is moving its corporate headquarters to Dubai, where 2 of the 9-11 hijakcers came from. You actually support these people?

The fact that you look at the "War on Terror" in those either/or terms shows how 2 dimensional your thinking is and how THAT will ultimately result in our defeat.

You are being duped, sir, by men who are pathological liars, sugar coating their bullshit with a faux patriotism so people like you will continue to support them. If we are going to prevail in this conflict over the long term, military action is the smallest piece of the solution.

Anonymous said...

I disagree, but we can discuss Halliburton later.

Again:
A. Is the “War on Terror” a police action in which it’s essentially over once we catch the bad guy, or
B. Is it in fact a real war against an enemy that will continue to fight long after its leader has been captured?

Mark Ward said...

Again, you can't look at the War on Terror in either/or terms. President Bush himself has said that the War on Terror is something that brings in all elements of our governemnt.

It is a police action because we will be hunting down domestic and international criminals and arresting them. This will be the job of local law enforcement, Homeland Security, the FBI, and to a certain extent, the CIA.

Then we move into the grey area where the CIA will work with the military to do things like bomb Al Qaeda bases on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. If you recall, there was overwhemling bipartisan support for this last year when we almost got Zawahari. There were cries of outrage because we killed some civillians but the reason why I support something like this as opposed to Iraq is that the goal in Pakistan was to actually protect our country from future attacks. Our goal in Iraq is protect the flow of money from there to Dick Cheney Inc. By the way, had we killed Zawahari, a major blow would have been dealt to Al Qaeda and bin Laden would've been less meaningful. This is just my opinion, mind you, but Zawahari is the real leader of Al Qaeda.

Next we would have situations where the full use of the military would be required. An example of this would be the operation we started and did not finish in Afghanistan. There will be countries in the future that are going to harbor terrorists. Sometimes they will need to be dealt with militarily. Iraq was and is NOT an example of this.

So, the answer to both of your questions is yes. The British foiled the last terrorist plot..the one where they were going to blow up 10 airplanes using chemicals and such...using simple detective work....no needless bombing, no torture, no profiling, they used their heads and that is something we need to do more of starting now.

One very positive thing the Bush administration did was destroy the financial network of Al Qaeda. We also need to counter the propaganda that countries like Iran put out on a daily basis. It's hard to do that when we have a siutation like Iraq which we are responsible for....the arab world sees us in a negative light, like it or not, and that was not the case in the days following 9-11. We squandered the good will of the world by invading Iraq and lying about why were doing so.

Leaving Iraq would not be "cutting and running" if we re-depolyed troops to Afgahnistan, focused our diplomatic efforts in countries in the Middle East that we need to help us, worked with the police force of many of these countries to catch invidual memebers of terrorist organiztaions, and brokered a meaningful dialogue with the Palestinians and the Israelis.

The last one is a tough one. I have a hard time supporting the creation of a Palestinian state, as President Bush has said is essential to peace in the Middle East. I am very pro Israel and I think they have shown incredible restraint over the years. I know quite a bit of what goes on over there as I have a good friend who has dual citizenship and served in the Israeli army. The Palestinains are being used by Arab goverments who want the same thing Dick Cheney wants: money to achieve manipulative power. The Palestinians fight amongst each other and generally behave like thugs so what's the point?

In the end, Joe, to be honest with you there are times I feel like a cynic and times I feel like an idealist. I do know this, though. Conservatives forgive everything this country does and chalk it up all up to national security. That is a dangerous lie. Liberals forgive everything that other countries do, particularily Middle Eastern and African countries do, and blame the US.

Can't anyone but me see that there is no difference between Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Bush, and Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed?

Anonymous said...

Nope…just can’t do it. You had a few good points worth discussing and were actually flirting with rational thought, but if you legitimately cannot see a difference between Chavez, Ahmadinejad and President Bush, you are an idiot and words are wasted on you.

Mark Ward said...

Ah well, here comes the name calling again. Take it from someone who has tried it...it doesn't work.I just want you to know, Joe, that I don't think you are an idiot, a Nazi, or a baby killer.

I do think that you are trapped in a mindset that for some reason will not allow you to admit that our country is dangerous and does rotten things. Take Iran, for example. I am sure you feel that they are evil and we are good. They are the enemy and we are the good guys. But if you take a look at the history of Iranian and US relations, you will see there is plenty of blame on both sides. They didn't just wake up one day and start hating us. We did something...several things actually...to ignite this conflict and now it is worse because Ahmadinejad is religious zealot...but so is President Bush.

I say this not because I "hate" America...I say it because I want our country to be better and it is the truth. I am willing to admit that some of the things that you say about our enemies are correct. I am also willing to say that your approach to foreign policy and combatting terrorism has a chance of working.

It's a small chance, however. Very slim but anything is possible and because I am the type of person who likes to look at all sides, I can't discount everything. Now, can the same be said for you. Is there any chance, albeit a slim one, that I am right?