On February 15, 2004 John Kerry said the following at a primary debate:"President Bush cut the VA (Veterans Administration) budget and is not kept faith with veterans across this country. And one of the first definitions of patriotism is keeping faith with those who wore the uniform of our country.”
He was laughed at by every neocon from here to Timbuktu because, as I'm sure you are all aware, Democrats don't care about the troops. Why would anything a traitor like John Kerry says be true anyway?
On March 19, 2005 President Bush cut $350 million dollars from the federal budget for veterans, specifically in the area of home funding which amounts to about 5000 medical beds for our troops. The Governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell, a Democrat, said this was unconscionable. Neocons accused Governor Rendell of being a traitor and not supporting the troops by criticizing the president.
On February 13, 2007 President Bush again proposed cutting part of the budget for veterans starting in 2009 and continuing through 2010 in the hopes of balancing the budget by 2012. Democrats again raised concerns about how our troops are our greatest treasure and the sacrifices they make should be repaid in kind. I remember asking a neocon friend of mine at a party about how he, as a veteran, felt about the cuts. He told me that Democrats lie about everything, no one cares more about the troops than Republicans, and it was his job, as a soldier, to kill any Democrat that came into his gun sight.
In the last two weeks, most of the major media began running stories about conditions at Walter Reed hospital. Pictures and video showed black mold in the bathrooms, mouse droppings on the floors everywhere, and holes in just about every wall in the place. Soldiers, heretofore afraid to speak out, began telling stories of the rotten medical care they have received since serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Other military hospitals around the country have now been called to the mat, as several soldiers have cited similar conditions. Maj. Gen. George Weightman, who oversaw Walter Reed, was fired immediately. Last week, Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey also resigned in what many have finally come to see as the most appalling fuck up of Bush Co's tenure in the White House.Yes, that's right. You heard me correctly. This is Bush Co's fault. They decided we should go into 
Iraq and quite obviously didn't plan for how taxed the veteran's health care system would be. In fact, they made matters worse but cutting funding for programs that were already underfunded and thus, people like Cpl. Wendell McLeod were treated like animals. "This is how we treat our soldiers -- we give them nothing," Annette McLeod, wife of Cpl. McLeod said. "They're good enough to go and sacrifice their life, and we give them nothing."
Iraq and quite obviously didn't plan for how taxed the veteran's health care system would be. In fact, they made matters worse but cutting funding for programs that were already underfunded and thus, people like Cpl. Wendell McLeod were treated like animals. "This is how we treat our soldiers -- we give them nothing," Annette McLeod, wife of Cpl. McLeod said. "They're good enough to go and sacrifice their life, and we give them nothing."Ms. McLeod is one many voices of veteran's families that I hope can be heard. These are the people that the right wing media ignore, spewing more of their lies and hate about how Democrats "don't support the troops." Neocons inability to look at these stories boggles my mind and is, in the end I guess, completely expected by a group of people who regularly accuse liberals as being out of touch with reality while they are, in fact, living life at fucking Disneyland.
The policies of George W Bush have been idiotic, incompetent, and utterly unkind which, quite honestly, I think is being polite. For him to stand up in front of the public and say he cares about the troops has now been categorically proven to be one of the greatest lies in the history of our country. The pictures and videos I have seen are nauseating, to the say the least, and I was so far beyond appalled by this it was hard for me to know where to begin. So I started with the man who might have been president whose words from three years ago ended up being exactly true.
I wonder what else he was right about?
The policies of George W Bush have been idiotic, incompetent, and utterly unkind which, quite honestly, I think is being polite. For him to stand up in front of the public and say he cares about the troops has now been categorically proven to be one of the greatest lies in the history of our country. The pictures and videos I have seen are nauseating, to the say the least, and I was so far beyond appalled by this it was hard for me to know where to begin. So I started with the man who might have been president whose words from three years ago ended up being exactly true.
I wonder what else he was right about?
34 comments:
Another tidbit: Walter Reed was turned over to be managed by a private company run by two former executives from Halliburton. Sound familiar?
The Bush administration's arrogance is exceeded only by its incompetence and greed, as evidenced again and again in the planning of the Iraq war, the Iraq reconstruction, the abandonment of Afghanistan, the inability to get Pakistan to deal with Al Qaeda, the botched response to Katrina, the botched Katrina reconstruction, negotiations with North Korea, resparking the nuclear arms race (by dumping the ABM treaty with Russia, building a "nuclear shield" that doesn't work and starting development of a new nuclear warhead), suppressing the truth about global warming, toadying up to the drug companies, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
The president and his apologists have constantly maligned the integrity and patriotism of anyone who dares question their actions. In reality, Bush has been undermining our economy, our country's troops, our standing in the world community, the environment, and the very moral fiber of our nation with his corrosive, self-serving, divisive politics.
I don't think it's possible to agree with someone more, blk, are you single? And do you ever get down to Chicago?
I have always thought I'm a pretty fair person and, to be sure, the Democrats are not perfect. When it comes to injustice, however, they can't even hold a candle to this rotten to the core bunch of pond scum that is our current executive branch. The Walter Reed hospital situation is just another example of the lies that these subhuman people tell, the direct result of an obviously failed policy.
Can't wait for joe's, pl's and crabmaster's responses to this one....let the reframing of reality begin!!
I read somewhere that Bush is responsible for those crop circles in England too.
Oh yeah Mr. Greenspan…I heard GWB was responsible for the Indonesia earthquake.
I can’t and won’t defend the care the soldiers have been given. I will put things into context though.
Newsflash: Government run health care sucks.
The healthcare company I work for does over $15 million dollars of business every year with VA hospitals and over $1 million of business every year with Walter Reed alone (Walter Reed is not a part of the VA system, they are mutually exclusive). This issue has been water cooler talk at my office here since the stories broke recently. I personally talk to VA employees every day and I deal with Walter Reed a couple times a week.
Any of you who are using this issue to shit on GWB can come on down here anytime and talk to our regional sales manager who is just over in the next suite who has had an inside view of these facilities for over 25 years. The inconvenient truth is that problems with military health care - active-duty and veterans as well - have existed long before GWB ever took office and your writings thus far have shown your complete ignorance on this issue because you are all on here claiming that this is something new.
In 1995, a federal judge awarded $4.5 million to a disabled vet who was maltreated at three different VA hospitals. A disabled vet suffered from a rare tissue disease that causes psychiatric symptoms. When the vet complained of neglect and malpractice, the judge wrote, the doctors "attributed his views to delusions and tried to drug them out of his mind". This isn’t just some neocon blaming Clinton...some of our products were used on this vet and our sales manager had to testify at this trial.
In 1999, similar complaints were made at Chattanooga, Tennessee VA where one VA doctor who sided with patients' complaints about substandard treatment was punished for his whistle-blowing activities.
Yeah, I think I’ll blame Bill Clinton for those last two...that will prove how forward thinking I am. There you have it – 2 specific examples of what I’m talking about that don’t have blanket accusations containing sentences that begin with "Neocons said..." or "liberals said...".
The VA's government-run system of hospitals, clinics, and nursing homes is clogged with bureaucratic excess. Petty waste on golf courses, aquariums and parties is money not spent improving veterans' care and it all adds up to a $17 billion-dollar agency that rots from the top down. It’s common knowledge at my company that political grandstanding on both sides of the political aisle has impeded reforms for years. The push to modernize and consolidate facilities (including Walter Reed which was rumored to close last year...that was a big deal around here to say the least) has been met with fierce resistance by the bureaucratic machine known as the federal government.
This is no different than my earlier complaints on this blog regarding bureaucracies in the educational system. In that system, we’re supporting associate deputy assistants to assistant deputy superintendents. Government is never more efficient than private industry because it has no incentive to be.
So as someone who deals with these facilities every week, the fact that some Halliburton guys have management positions does not change the fact that these facilities are centralized bureaucratic leviathans run by the Federal Government.
I do hope that you lefties who are now newly enraged by problems at the VA sustain your interest beyond the time frame in which these stories maximize embarrassment of your political opponents. I hope you now understand that this is the nature of the beast, and it's the same beast you ask for when you demand universal health care.
Your inability to give your readers the whole story boggles my mind as well. So was it a "cut" in VA funding or was it a "reduction in the rate of growth"? We have an employee here names Scott whose only job is to study and handle government affairs and medicare reimbursement as they relate to our company and our customers. Here’s how your "cuts" work...each VA has a base budget. In year #1 they get $150 million more than their allotted base, in year 2 they get $120 million more than their allotted budget. Now to most people, in year 2 they got an increase of $120 million over their base budget but to you lefties, they got a $30 million cut. Way to play on peoples ignorance of the issue.
I wonder what else you’re wrong about?
Well, I'm sure I have been wrong about many things. That's an ability I have that neocons don't have...admitting when one is wrong.
Bill Clinton should have been held responsible for any mal treatment of troops during his tenure. He waged a minor conflict in Yugoslavia and it was his repsonsibilty to make sure that troops received adequate funding and care. He is the commander-in-chief after all.
But Bill Clinton did not wage a major war with the post conflict plans drawn up on the back of a cocktail napkin from Applebees. George Bush is responsible for that...in the here and now....and the ol' "stop ripping on Bush just cuz you hate him so I am not going to believe anything you say" diatribe is not going to cut it anymore. We have many, many problems that have arise because of this administrations actions. This is not a matter of opinion, it is fact. Deal with it.
And by the way, why don't we take a look at a comparison of Bill Clinton and George Bush.
Bill Clinton was impeached for lying under oath in regards to the Monica Lewinsky affair. The case arose from a civil suit regarding libel and defamation. Basically we all know Bill screwed around on Hillary and lied about it. So, fine, he lied under oath...that is a crime...I have no problem with punishing him.
George Bush has, in chronological order:
1. Ignored warnings about an imminent Al Qaeda attack. His charge as commander in chief is to protect the country. He failed.
2. Has been unable to capture the two men responsible for 9-11 and has called them unimportant again failing to carry out one of the most basic duties of the president.
3. Lied to the American public about WMDs in Iraq as a pretext to war which has resulted in the deaths of thousands of people.
4. Outed a CIA agent, this was Libby, Rove, and Cheney but they all answer to Bush in the end. This is a federal crime.
5. Broke constitutional law regarding wiretaps. This program has since been suspended due to the "questionable legality" of it. Huh, that was something I was right about.
6. Illegally has detained people at Gitmo and around the world without due process and tortured them, which not only breaks US law but international law as well.
7. Failed to provide support during Hurricane Katrina. It is the duty of the president to use the federal government to aid people in time of natural disasters. He did not and people lost their lives based on his inaction.
8. Failed to provide adequate health care for injured troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'm sure there are more things to add to the list but these are the major ones. Now ask yourself this question, why is George Bush not being impeached right now? Compare what he has done with what Clinton did. They aren't even in the same ballpark...hell they are not even in the same fucking galaxy.
Oh, but that's right. I just "hate Bush" so I am just looking for things to fuel my hate...not revealing the "whole truth" so I can prove my point. Please, what a load of shit. If John Lennon were president and did all of these things, I would throw out my Beatles records.
Here, here, mc. Well said.
I am saddened by our treatment of the troops. It is George Bush's fault and why has not been fired, removed, impeached or whatever proves how lazy and unattached the American public is.
Write your congresspeople and demand that George Bush be removed from office!
"Failed to provide adequate health care for injured troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan."
"I am saddened by our treatment of the troops. It is George Bush's fault".
So nothing I typed made a dent at all. Who are the ones refraining from reality now? As usual, there is only one perception of the situation at hand - yours and yours alone.
btw, I was joking when I blamed Clinton. I don't blame him at all for those cases I spoke about as I was being sarcastic.
The fact is that the stories you all have read about recently describes every single VA hospital in this country on any given day over the last 30 years.
I held my tounge on this issue waiting for Markadelphias predictable response to it.
Hook, line and sinker.
Boy, the topic of Al Queda sure came up quickly in here all of a sudden didn't it?
Government run health care still sucks.
I like bananas.
Yo, ding dong man. Ding dong. Ding dong yo.
It didn't make a dent because someone just told you that the sky was blue and you responded by saying that the sum of 21 and 21 is 42.
The current Iraq War is the biggest conflict of the last 30 years. It has also lasted the longest. That is George Bush's fault. It's his war. He made an already bad system worse.
Gang Bang,
If George Bush says he supports the troops and 50 million people in this country believe that he does more than the Democrats, don't you think that is extremly hypocritical when you see the conditions these people have had to deal with? Dismissing that it has "always been that way" does not excuse the president, any president, from anything.
Are you people going to respond to a single thing I said about the subject at hand or do you just want to debate the validity of the Iraq war?
Like I said at the beginning of my first post - I can't and won't defend the care they are getting. I'm not excusing GWB...I'm not excusing Bill Clinton...I'm not excusing anybody of anything.
For you people to come on here and act like this is something new and unique is quite amusing as that claim is the furthest thing from the truth. That's the issue to which I'm speaking as that is the issue brought up in the original post where the words "This is Bush Co's fault." were posted. I posted facts from an insiders point of view on the subject at hand that shows that statement to be a flat out lie as it's origins are not based in fact whatsoever, it is based solely on the perception of the author and nothing more.
You can all believe who you want to here regarding this subject, makes no difference to me.
Uh oh, someone has introduced logical reasoning and real world experience into the equation. Quick, time to start another thread.
...another one for the good guys.
Um, I thought I was responding to what you wrote. You said that goverment health care stinks. You said the problem existed long before Bush took office. That is true.
It is also true that the Iraq War is causing the system to be more taxed than it already is and that is Bush's fault. It has made the already bad system worse. Presidents before Bush did not have to deal with the issue of Iraq, with the possible exception of Bush 41 but there were less injuries and casualities in that much shorter conflict.
And again, I must say, that the cornerstone of Bush Co's presidency is that he "supports the troops." Fox News "supports the troops." Neocons "support the troops." My point of the original post is that all of that talk is a lie.
You also list a number of inaccuracies about universal health care. Mitt Romney, a Republican, is the only person to pass Universal Health Care for an entire state. Our own governor is also Republican and has plans for Universal Health Care. So the "lefties" crack is wrong. And, if you look at the latest and greatest plans for uhc they all involve the private sector so the analogy of our future care being like the troops is also in error. Read how the Mass. plan works in more detail and I think you will be reasonably suprised.
Mr Greenspan, here is logical reasoning and real world experience for you: Bush does not care about the troops. They are pawns in a game that has been played out throughout time....in just about every empire in human history.
OK, crabmaster, I will respond to each of your points.
You said:
"I can’t and won’t defend the care the soldiers have been given. I will put things into context though. Newsflash: Government run health care sucks."
Agreed. But you start to sort of defend Bush by throwing out the context thing.
"The healthcare company I work for does over $15 million dollars of business every year with VA hospitals and over $1 million of business every year with Walter Reed alone (Walter Reed is not a part of the VA system, they are mutually exclusive). This issue has been water cooler talk at my office here since the stories broke recently. I personally talk to VA employees every day and I deal with Walter Reed a couple times a week."
OK.
"Any of you who are using this issue to shit on GWB can come on down here anytime and talk to our regional sales manager who is just over in the next suite who has had an inside view of these facilities for over 25 years. The inconvenient truth is that problems with military health care - active-duty and veterans as well - have existed long before GWB ever took office and your writings thus far have shown your complete ignorance on this issue because you are all on here claiming that this is something new."
This where your argument loses clarity. I agree--I don't think the Walter Reed situation is anything new. What is new is the fact that we are now engaged in a war that requires much more funding for veteran's assitance and support than during peactime. Bush, for all of his vaunted talk about supporting the troops in their effort in Iraq, has failed to do this. This is a fact: He has failed to support the troops.
"In 1995, a federal judge awarded $4.5 million to a disabled vet who was maltreated at three different VA hospitals. A disabled vet suffered from a rare tissue disease that causes psychiatric symptoms. When the vet complained of neglect and malpractice, the judge wrote, the
doctors "attributed his views to delusions and tried to drug them out of his mind". This isn’t just some neocon blaming Clinton...some of our products were used on this vet and our sales manager had to testify at this trial.In 1999, similar complaints were made at Chattanooga, Tennessee VA where one VA doctor who sided with patients' complaints about substandard treatment was punished for his whistle-blowing activities."
Again, we were not invovled in Iraq in 1995 or 1999. So, the system was flawed then and now it is a disaster.
"Yeah, I think I’ll blame Bill Clinton for those last two...that will prove how forward thinking I am. There you have it – 2 specific examples of what I’m talking about that don’t have blanket accusations containing sentences that begin with "Neocons said..." or "liberals said..."."
President Clinton does bear blame here. There is no joking about it. But Bill Clinton and his supporters didn't go around accusing people of not supporting the troops while he was neglecting these soldiers at Walter Reed. President Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and the rest of the American Nazi Party are doing that and thus are the ultimate hypocrites.
"The VA's government-run system of hospitals, clinics, and nursing homes is clogged with bureaucratic excess. Petty waste on golf courses, aquariums and parties is money not spent improving veterans' care and it all adds up to a $17 billion-dollar agency that rots from the top down. It’s common knowledge at my company that political grandstanding on both sides of the political aisle has impeded reforms for years. The push to modernize and consolidate facilities (including Walter Reed which was rumored to close last year...that was a big deal around here to say the least) has been met with fierce resistance by the bureaucratic machine known as the federal government."
Agreed.
"This is no different than my earlier complaints on this blog regarding bureaucracies in the educational system. In that system, we’re supporting associate deputy assistants to assistant deputy superintendents. Government is never more efficient than private industry because it has no incentive to be.So as someone who deals with these facilities every week, the fact that some Halliburton guys have management positions does not change the fact that these facilities are centralized bureaucratic leviathans run by the Federal Government."
Agreed mostly. The fact that Haliburton is involved strengthens accusations of cronyism and should make you look seriously at welfare-corporate welfare that is...
"I do hope that you lefties who are now newly enraged by problems at the VA sustain your interest beyond the time frame in which these stories maximize embarrassment of your political opponents. I hope you now understand that this is the nature of the beast, and it's the same beast you ask for when you demand universal health care."
I think markadelphia responded to this comment well. Do some more research on current universal health care models and I think you will be in agreement with most of them.
"Your inability to give your readers the whole story boggles my mind as well. So was it a "cut" in VA funding or was it a "reduction in the rate of growth"? We have an employee here names Scott whose only job is to study and handle government affairs and medicare reimbursement as they relate to our company and our customers. Here’s how your "cuts" work...each VA has a base budget. In year #1 they get $150 million more than their allotted base, in year 2 they get $120 million more than their allotted budget. Now to most people, in year 2 they got an increase of $120 million over their base budget but to you lefties, they got a $30 million cut. Way to play on peoples ignorance of the issue."
But in the end, aren't the veterans still getting less of an increase? Again, your entire response to the post failed to address markadelphia's point about the hypocrisy of the current administration and their supporters. They only say they support the troops because then the neocon sheep will support them.
I knew all along that Bush has not cared a wit about the troops and is lying to them--to the rest of the country. Now that I have responded to your comments, respond to mine--mr greenspan, joe, and whoever else reads this blog that is conservative--what is it going to take for you to admit that Bush and his adminstration are not acting in the best interests of this country?
I think I can answer that:
George Bush and Dick Cheney anally raping a 5 year old boy on the White House lawn on live TV.
Except Fox News which would be covering Anna Nicole Smith's breast implants....
Just caught the top story on Fox News on my lunch break:
OJ claims to be father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby.
I am not making this up. It was on at the top of the noon hour.
Thanks for the response.
Putting the situation into context does not equal defending Bush. That’s a filter you must have.
"What is new is the fact that we are now engaged in a war that requires much more funding for veteran's assistance and support than during peactime."
There are other factors at play here that you left out, albeit not purposely. The 1990’s was the time period when the WWII generation needed the most care. Many people who work in healthcare as well as the insurance industry will tell you that 80% of a persons medical expenses are accumulated after they turn 70 years old. I can’t believe you would neglect the WWII generation like that. Liberals hate WWII veterans and they don’t support them!!!! I now have proof!!!! (Only kidding)...Damn it’s easy to make these kind of links – I should be a liberal.
The fact that we are in Iraq now or the fact that we weren’t there in 1995 or 1999 has nothing to do with the fact that things were just as screwed up then as they are now.
I’m not going to respond to your or Marks charges of hypocrisy because, regarding this issue, the root of your charge is a lie that Mark is trying to peddle on the readers of his blog, the lie being that this is something new and that blame can be pinned on one person. Any of you, at this point of this discussion, who still believe that "This is all Bush Co’s fault" are behaving in the exact same way you all decry conservatives of behaving in...having an inability to look at facts and admit when you are wrong.
"The fact that Haliburton is involved strengthens accusations.." and that’s all you guys have – accusations.
Hey, I just found this blog listed on blogspot as one of the most viewd blogs of the last two days.
I love the banter in this thread but I have a question for the liberals that post here. Why are arguing with brick walls? The people that are left that support George Bush are never going to change their mind and are always going to try to dictate the parameters of the debate. Those parameters usually include very narrow boundaries that liberals constantly stay trapped within. An example of this would be when conservatives say things like, "Support the War in Iraq or Ally Yourselves with the Terrorists." Liberals then try to argue why the War in Iraq is wrong and then come off looking like they have allied themselves with terrorists.
Don't fall into their simple black and white world. When posed a question like the one above, ask them why you have to choose a side. Or is there a third choice? At that point, a very curious thing happens.
People start to think.
Yes, putting the situation in context does take responsibility away from Bush. Please tell me which of the following are not facts.
1. President Bush and the administration wanted to go into Iraq.
2. President Bush and the administration have stated publically on repeatd occasions that they support the troops.
3. Wounded troops returning from Iraq received inadequate health care at various veterans health facilities around the country. These facilities are run by the government, the leaders of which are President Bush and his administration.
These are all facts.
So, regarldess of what happened in the 1990s or before, George Bush has a responsibility to make sure that HE does it right because HE claims to support the troops. If he cared as much about them as he and his administration said they did and do, then he should've been pro-active in preparing the system for what was to come. He failed. Dick Cheney failed. Donald Rumsfeld failed. They all failed.
Markadelphia, in my opinion, is not "peddling a lie," he is exposing a lie that is quite obvious to those who are willing to listen.
Yes, GWB is responsible. But know that your hypocrisy claims toward GWB (a man who isn’t going to be on any ballots going forward) do nothing to convince me that the solution is to elect democrats to get rid of rainy days in this country.
Vheights, you worded #3 a little wrong. If you look at the Washington Post articles closely, you'll see that the inpatient care given to the patients was and is still considered top notch, and it is the outpatient locations that are the problem and like I said - these areas have always been a problem. Doesn’t excuse it, but when money is limited and it is a choice between an MRI and a new outpatient facility, the MRI wins every time. The Army Medical Department doesn’t have unlimited funds and hasn’t received unlimited funds in any war we’ve ever been in. Most of the facilities are at least 40 years old, and many are even older. The Beach Pavilion section of the Brooke Army Medical Center (another one of our customers) is actually cavalry barracks dating back to the turn of the century…the cafeteria used to be the horse stables. Pathology is housed in what had been the brig (the bars are still on the windows).
The Army Medical Department has never received the funding to upgrade all those shoddy buildings that dot their campuses from any politician of either party. They get enough to keep up with technology increases in radiology and to cover the increasing costs of pharmaceuticals. It isn’t just dipping into a bottomless pit of money, it is about deciding if people coming back from Iraq will get up-to-date x-rays or if the outpatient buildings are crappy. Obviously, they have chosen the x-rays - and rightfully so, because shorting those purchases would cost lives. Notice that none of the articles you have read in the media say that the initial inpatient care was shoddy. What is being said is that the outpatient facilities, where these guys live while being treated in an outpatient setting, is crappy. It shouldn’t be. But it is. I’m not saying that it’s right. I’m saying that that is how it is. To think that this is something unique to GWB's war is just flat out wrong.
The doctors, nurses, and support staff at these facilities are great folks. The problem is - was - and will continue to be - civilian bureaucrats (see – BLK’s post and the second half of your point #3). Most of them are members of AFGE (the government workers union). Think the Washington Post will bash AFGE anytime soon? If so, I have some ocean front property in Nebraska I’d like to sell you. It is the piss-ant in some obscure office who won’t, or can’t, properly complete a form. Then, another nameless piss-ant in another office rejects that form. And the patient and family are not given a reason, because nobody really knows why. Welcome to Government run health care...bringing the medical bureaucracy that has done so much for our Military to a hospital near you soon. Did you know that there are procedures that doctors recommend only to have the civilian case manager come in and deny the procedure? We had one soldier who lost his arm and the government only gave him a 10% disability. Why? Because they said he would be getting a prosthetic arm and he would be back to 100% after he got his new arm. Newsflash – he won’t ever be back to 100% but since the government was in charge, they had no incentive to give him any more than a 10% disability. Think he was able to complain to anybody who would listen? You think you’ll be able to sue your case manager if this happens to your family? Think again buffalo breath.
This building making news is an apartment complex where the army permits soldiers returning from active duty to reside if they are functionally independent, but require outpatient physical therapy services. The maintenance on the building isn’t done by civil service employees but contracted out (see – BLK’s post). The infrastructure of Army facilities has been old for decades. It always has been, and you left-wingers have only now discovered it. I’ve been over to the Minneapolis VA 5 times helping our area sales rep.
If you think these problems are unique to the Army, just wait until the government gets their slimy hands on your health care. This treatment that was/is being delivered to our injured soldiers is the future of your health care. This is what you, and most certainly your children, will have to deal with as the United States moves toward Government run health care. I realize that it's not insurance that people who support this want, it's a medical payment plan. What they truly want is for someone else to step forward to foot their medical bills. My guess is that your goal is to pay about $500 out of your own pockets every year, and then have someone else, either your employer or the taxpayers, be responsible for everything else.
The American people are going to get what they're asking for. Socialized medicine is more than likely inevitable in the U.S. The degree of power it will give the Government over our lives is staggering (something railed against by blog moderators on here often).
It's coming...and it's going to be ugly as hell. The long waits for simple diagnostic tests that have become commonplace in Canada will become the norm here. The last company I worked for was headquartered out of Toronto so I’ve heard all about it. It may come to the point that you will be assigned to a doctor just as your child is assigned to a school. Remember 1993? Under the system proposed in that year, if you decided to take your own money and go hire your own doctor outside of the governments plan (somewhat like taking your child out of a government school and putting him in a private school) you could be charged with a crime. It may be necessary to adopt that policy again after people discover what a disaster their precious "universal health care" is going to be.
Take a look at Walter Reed. Go visit your local Veterans Hospital. Check out a Social Security office. How are the lines at your local DMV these days? It's coming folks. You asked for it. You couldn't handle the responsibility yourself and the politicians damned sure weren't going to present you with private sector free market options unless you demanded them.
"A government that is powerful enough to give you everything is also powerful enough to take it all away" – Ronald Reagan.
Regarding how long this war is taking – our soldiers win every time the enemy stays to fight after an ambush but mostly, the terrorists hit then run away and blend into the crowd. I don’t know about you but I fully realize just how effective this enemy is using the media as a weapon. Whether they are right or not, they interpret dissent as weakness. That is exactly how "the terrorists" win IMO. They aren’t dumb – they know that they do not have to defeat us, they just have to outlast us. I blame us for assuming we can maintain all of our political correctness and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Any setback the US encounters is trumped up by you guys. War is full of missteps...I wonder how soon you all would have been ready to call things off in WWII seeing as we had many, many major setbacks in that war as well.
Since some of you want to talk about Clinton, how much attention did he pay to all of the ancient and decripit Army outpatient facilities when we had a surplus in this country? Where were all of you for the last 30 years? Here’s a hint – you were as busy caring about those facilities before 2003 about as much as you were caring about Iraqi civilians before 2003. Heck I'd think that peacetime would be a great time to upgrade the facilities don't you? Gosh, the priorities of Democrats are way off.
If our "enemy" (and please tell me who that is btw, al qaeda, shiite, sunni...who?) interprets dissent as weakness, then they are pretty fucking weak themselves! They do a pretty good job at blowing themselves up and killing each other these days so how does that play into your opinion?
The media (ie right wing propaganda)have done a great job on making you believe that everyone we must all march together under the same banner or all is lost. What a croc of shit! Can't you see that what you are advocating is facism? It's no wonder comparisons to Hitler are drawn.
We are not fighting a "war." That is your first mistake. We are pretending that our occupation of Iraq is combating terrorism. It is not. Stop defining the winnability of the conflict with terrorists as staying in Iraq and the losing as leaving Iraq. It's just plain ridiculous and it is an out and out lie. WWII and our conflict with terrorists are two completely different things. This "war" can't be won militarily.
Thankfully, someone who knows more about this than you or I agrees.
General David Petraeus, commander of US Forces in Iraq.
"There is no military solution to a problem like that in Iraq, to the insurgency of Iraq,"
Petraeus also said talks should include "some of those who have felt the new Iraq did not have a place for them," and said a key challenge facing Iraq's government was to identify "reconcilable" militant groups and bring them inside the political process.
Huh. Well imagine that.
Please do some research on potential universal health care models, look at Mass's uhc and how it worked, and realize that you have no idea what our universal health care is going to look like.
Would you stop listening to conservative pundits and their complete fabrication of reality?
Do some research on how "public" health care in Canada works.
From the five minutes of research I did:
Canada's health care system is a publicly funded health care system, with most services provided by private entities. It is important to understand that it is not a true public system, even though the government calls it so. In Canada the various levels of government pay for about 70% of Canadians' health care costs, which is about average for a developed country.
In Canada the private sector has always been the frontline in healthcare. Canadian doctors operate as revenue/profit businesses and are the primary gatekeepers to the whole healthcare system. The doctors also have no controls placed on them by the primary payer for services, the government, and they are therefore in a position to easily recommend more visits and are guaranteed payment by the government.
About 30% of Canadians' health care is paid for through the private sector. This mostly goes towards services not covered or only partially covered by Medicare such as prescription drugs, dentistry and optometry. Many Canadians have private health insurance, often through their employers, that cover these expenses. There are also large private entities that can buy priority access to medical services in Canada, such as WCB in BC.
Contrary to popular belief, selling private health insurance that could cover hip replacements and MRI scans is legal in several provinces, but because they are available without charge in the public system, so far there has been no market for private insurance for what the Canada Health Act defines as "medically necessary services."
Canada's hospitals are often of high quality, but critcs allege the wait times to get into those hospitals can span weeks or months, including for simple procedures. According to the Fraser Institute, waiting times in Canada, across all specialties, averaged 17.7 weeks in 2005.
However, the Fraser Institute's report is greatly at odds with the 2007 (and earlier) reports of the Canadian Institute for Health Information, a government-sponsored watchdog agency. Although there are long waits for some non-emergency procedures (notably hip- and knee-replacement surgery) and long waits for specific other procedures in specific provinces, most waits appear to be normal with respect to other health care systems.
Much of the political discourse concerning the health care system, as it stands in the year 2006, appears to be politically motivated. Firstly, there is a failure to appreciate and acknowledge that the system is not a true public system, secondly there is a failure to appreciate the system is also private,(a half-truth) in that most services are provided by the private sector, merely publicly funded (though on a set pay scale). While the majority of discussions focus on whether to privatize or not, the question implies that the system is not private, ignores the privatization of the system, and further implies that the system is a true public system, which it is not.
Canadian average life expectancy...79.3 years, United States life expectancy 77.0.
Infant mortality rate in Canada 5.6, United States 6.4 per one thousand births.
So these statements:
"The degree of power it will give the Government over our lives is staggering "
"It's coming...and it's going to be ugly as hell. The long waits for simple diagnostic tests that have become commonplace in Canada will become the norm here. The last company I worked for was headquartered out of Toronto so I’ve heard all about it. It may come to the point that you will be assigned to a doctor just as your child is assigned to a school. Remember 1993? Under the system proposed in that year, if you decided to take your own money and go hire your own doctor outside of the governments plan (somewhat like taking your child out of a government school and putting him in a private school) you could be charged with a crime. It may be necessary to adopt that policy again after people discover what a disaster their precious "universal health care" is going to be."
are flat out wrong. Do your homework before you let your fear and ignorance do your writing for you.
Aw...someone just got caught peddling a giant piece of neocon bullshit...
Geez Mark, you only focused on 1 paragraph. That's better than your first response in this thread where you only focused on Bill Clinton (who I mentioned sarcastically). Please tell me what media besides talk radio and fox news is "right wing"?
There are other differences between Canada and the US that should be noted - population of Canada - 35 million. Population of the US - approx. 350 million. Also, Canada doesn't spend a whole lot of money on defense...they don't have to.
Massachusetts is a pretty wealthy state. Are you sure the Massachusetts model will work in Texas? Don't tell me how it "worked" because the results aren't even in yet. Even Markadelphia said so on this very blog just a few months ago regarding the Massachusetts model..."Until the results are in, our comments on here are purely speculatory". So are the results in or are we still allowed to speculate? Looks like people are still allowed to speculate as long as their opinions align with Marks.
"someone just got caught peddling a giant piece of neocon bullshit"
"Would you stop listening to conservative pundits and their complete fabrication of reality?"
"Do your homework before you let your fear and ignorance do your writing for you."
In case you both missed it - I have posted real world examples of my own as well as my co-workers experience with the VA system as well as the Walter Reed facility itself. I now know why PL isn't posting anymore - it doesn't matter what he or I type on here.
The fact that I have visited the Minneapolis VA 5 times doesn't seem to matter. The fact that I deal with Walter Reed on a weekly basis doesn't seem to matter. The fact that I talk to VA's every day doesn't seem to matter. The fact that the regional sales manager at my company has dealt with Walter Reed and the VA system for over 25 years doesn't seem to matter. Just dismiss all of it and call me ignorant.
The fact that I worked for a Canadian Corporation several years ago doesn't matter - Truthgirl did 5 minutes of research on the internet. Man, my 2 years of work experience at a Canadian corporation can't stack up to 5 minutes of internet research.
Truthgirl knows exactly how universal healthcare will work - she did 5 minutes of research on the internet!!!
I'm a conservative. That taints whatever I type on here. Real world experience doesn't matter.
Mark..."Oh, but that's right. I just "hate Bush" so I am just looking for things to fuel my hate...not revealing the "whole truth" so I can prove my point".
If you don't like filters, don't use them so much on others.
Truthgirl can continue to troll for dates on here and Mark can continue to tell everyone around him who to vote for.
Enjoy your blog folks.
In all of your above diatribe, you don't address any of the points that truth girl laid out. Why?
Crab,
It looks to me like truth girl has some good points here. I had no idea that Canadian health care was partly private. Did you? I think her point is that she found a number of facts that directly contradict your dire predictions of universal health care as well as your assessment of the Canadian health care system in only five minutes. Imagine what would happen if you set out to really look at the pros and cons...put in some serious time...I do that all the time. I do see your side in regards to the "War" on terror...heck I used to feel that way...but I have seen that it just doesn't bear out the facts or offer any real solution. I'm not being close minded...I just can't look at things in such black and white terms anymore.
I know two people that read this blog work at the VA here in town. They have both told me that since the Iraq War has started, the situation there has gotten worse. It is a direct result of the war, which Bush started, and they are having a difficult time handling patients. One of the people I know has been there for seven and a half years...before the war started...and he says that most everyone there agrees: this war is breaking an already broken system. Bush has made it worse.
Hey, I guess I get to be the dummie here to point out the obvious.
Last in Line said
"Canada doesn't spend a whole lot of money on defense...they don't have to."
Why don't they have to?
Answer: Because they don't go around the world raping people's economy, abusing civil rights, and bombing the crap out of people. So, no one attacks them.
Conservative Answer: Because America protects the little piss-ant weaklings that they are...god what a bunch of fags
The real sad part about all of this is that every single issue these days has to be partisan. It's just bullshit. In the end, this whole Walter Reed story will be homogenized and some people will look upon it as just politics and the soldiers won't receive the care they need.
Since the Democrats have no spine for any sort of battle, I blame the Republicans who act to me like infants mewing at every criticism place upon them. I have found through experience that anything a Republican accuses me of, he or she is actually guilty of themselves. They project their own faults onto others ever acting the part of a seven year old child.
Gang Bang,
I don't dismiss your points or experience in the matter-you aren't telling the whole story. You are cherry picking facts to suit your argument. It's odd because that is what you accuse markadelphia of doing all the time. Lone Star is right then in stating that conservatives project their own faults onto other people.
It sounds to me like you are done posting here and the only reason why I can see that is the case is because you can dish it out but can't take it.
Yes, markus is correct in what he is saying about the va. I work there (have for the last 8 years) and it is the worse it has ever been. Gang Bang is right in saying it has always been broken, for sure, but since the Iraq War has started it has become worse. The Bush administration does not care.
The physical and emotional trauma that these people are experiencing as a result of this war, that makes no sense to them or most of the country, is staggering. I see it everyday. It sickens me.
The Torch,
With all due respect, if you didn't agree with Markadelphia and his viewpoints would you continue to post on this blog? Not only does every single contrary viewpoint get shouted down with ever-increasing fervor and, some might argue, mania, but those who disagree are also confronted with a fleet of lapdogs who offer little more than a "you're right once again, Markadelphia" to the "discussion".
If it makes you feel better to belittle somebody who actually attempts to interject some logical argument to the "discussion", then you are certainly free to do so. In the end, you succeed only in proving the point.
For those of us who actually do support conservative positions, are not nazis, and actually aren't even bad people, there's not much point in "discussing" with people like yourself, Truthgirl, or Markadelphia (just to name a few) who will not deign to see a point of view that does not begin with "GWB is [insert negative adjective here]" or "Conservatives are [insert equally negative adjective here]."
In the end, this world of "let's shit on everything conservative" just isn't compelling enough to continue. You folks all probably get off on it, which is fine...I'm not one to criticize what you choose to do with your time. My opinion, for what little it's worth, is that HMHC and I have shown nothing less than measured response in the face of a never-ending barrage of misapplied facts and biased viewpoints. Eventually, though, pissing into the wind, while an interesting challenge at first, grows wearisome.
PL,
I repsonded to Crabmasters points one by one withouth doing any of the things you mentioned. I also sought out facts that directly contradicted his posts in regards to the Canadian health care system--none of which disussed my loathing of conservatives but simply pointed out the truth.
For some reason Crabmaster didn't like the facts I presented and stormed off--acting like a baby. And this is my fault how, exactly? Certainly not for the reasons you mention above.
You're absolutely right, truthgirl. One measured posting does make up for a pattern of judgmental, some would argue unreasonable, postings. Keep up the good work.
PL,
Just so we are clear, I really don't have much of a problem with you. For a conservative minded person, you are articulate and argue your points well. You are also fair, except when it comes to blk and markadelphia, whom you have labelled close minded--something that is not true at all. There are intolerant people on both sides but the level of intolerance we have been forced to experience over the last six years from the Bushies is, well, intolerable.
And completely inexcusable.
Thanks for the laugh, Truth Girl. I've said before that this blog is always good for a laugh, if nothing else. It would seem your definition of "open-minded" is about as far off from my definition as possible. I think you must be accessing the same dictionary that M does when he defines "liberal". Which is fine...more power to both of you. This consequence-free environment is the perfect place for all of you open-minded people to get together and complain about how stupid/intolerant/evil the rest of us are. I'll just sit back and ponder the errors of my ways, basking in the glow of tolerance and enlightenment.
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