But now...ah, no. The fun loving shower/whirlpool hook up crowd are now gone and have been replaced by some of my favorite people: bigots. Here are some quotes from some conversations I have overheard at the club in the last couple of weeks. These are word for word as I jotted them down immediately upon hearing them."I don't have anything against gay people-I just think they are disgusting. I don't want them anywhere near me."
"Maybe the gays could live in their own town or state."
"I saw a couple of them holding hands last week--in public! It was so gross. I wanted to vomit."
"I wish it was legal to kill them. They are acting against God's will."
"Mark, in Leviticus 18:22 it clearly states 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.' So, you can clearly see that God doesn't like gay people. They are sinners."
The last quote was from a conversation with a friend of mine. I have a lot of respect for him so I went home, looked it up and sure enough, he was right. I decided that maybe I should take a look at the rest of Leviticus and the rest of the Bible, for that matter, and make sure that I was on track, not only to live my life, but how to tell others to live their lives. Far be it from me to disobey the will of the Lord and I really don't want to misinterpret anything. Thank goodness I recently came across a letter of questions, originally addressed to Dr. Laura but has since been sent to the likes of Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Ralph Reed, Tony Perkins and, yes, even George W. Bush, that thoroughly summed up my confusion. I know many Christian Conservatives read my blog so now I am sharing these same questions with you. I need your help, Bushies. I am befuddled. What should I do about the following?
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Should I call the police? Or the nearest Bush supporter?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear glasses and contact lenses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Do I need to plunk down the dough for lassic surgery?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? Perhaps a boiling pit of sewage only with the rest of the homosexuals and fornicators.
9. I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Since you Bushies have the Lord speak directly through you and pass judgement on the rest of us (i.e. what constitutes being a real Christian), please enlighten me. How would you tackle these questions?
27 comments:
Make fun all you want, dickhead, but the Bible says homosexuality is wrong. There is debating this fact which means that it is a sin and the people that engage in that activity, without repenting their ills, are going to hell and will burn forever.
Nice language, is that a sin as well?
Gay people disgust me. They're pigs and they are going to rot in hell as it is a sin. The rest of the quotes you have put up are all taken out of context.
Well, I can't argue w/ logic like that. Mom always said, "Always wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people."
Oh, and if you read a little further, you'll discover a little event that happened on a hill called Calvary that made such sacrifices in the Old Testament obsolete.
Rev,
Did you mean to say "There is NO debating this fact?"
Just checking before I lay into for being the bigot that you are...
This would be an example of why all of the current Republican candidates are a sad group of midgets. Giuliani is the worst of all them. No one can call himself a conservative and think that gay people have equal rights. He is a pig fucker.
Enjoyed reading your new post so much that I didn't think it could be, but it actually was rivaled in sparkling touch multi-layered humanity fascination & fun by the 6 posts I read responding to your article. God bless and help America.
Truthgirl, so insults are ok as long as one doesn't swear? Judging by the majotiry of your posts that seems to be the case.
HOP, what does the current crop of republican candidates have to do with anything here?
The passages Mark quotes aren't out of context. They're simply not Christian. Here are some more:
Leviticus 20:9 says, "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
Yell at your dad? Death sentence.
And then in Leviticus 20:10 it says, "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
But in John 8 Christ tells the people that they should forgive an adulteress (note how the adulterer was not mentioned, even though they were caught in the act). Christ says, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." All of guys who were so eager to whack the woman slink away. Then Christ says, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
This is the attitude that Christians should have about gays. Instead of screaming about how disgusting they are and how they will burn in hell, true Christians should be the first ones to forgive them and pray for their souls. You say you can't do that because they aren't repenting and admitting their sins? The core Christian belief is that it's never too late: if you come to Jesus on your deathbed it's all good.
When you come right down to it, Christ was a soft, liberal do-gooder, more interested in helping people than lambasting them for their inadequacies.
Reveling in someone else's damnation is not a Christian act. But it is the style of American conservative Christians. They are a vengeful, old-Testament lot, eager to prove how morally superior they are to everyone else.
American conservative Christians have heroes like Newt Gingrich (serial adulterer, married three times) and Strom Thurmond (the segregationist senator who secretly had a daughter with a black maid).
Time and again the most vocal Christian opponents of gays and "immorality" are themselves engaging in the very acts they so roundly condemn. Remember Ted Haggard and his meth and gay prostitute binge? That was just last year. Remember Jim Bakker?
Against this background how can I possibly take seriously the claims of conservative Christians? Their leaders constantly and confidently proclaim to know the absolute will of God, yet they violate God's basic commandments on a regular basis.
Why are all these "Christians" so willing to forgive their own clan's foibles, yet will not do the same for others, as Christ commands?
anonymous,
Excellent enlightened comments based on reaching the common good for all humankind. If I were Al Qaeda, I wonder if I would view American conservative Christians as religious extremists?
It's often the most difficult to judge one's own character acurately than to judge others. Perhaps the solution should be to look inward rather than outward?
Markadelphia,
Although some of the comments hedge on going over the deep end, it's good to see that there are those out there that can balance the veiw, now only if all of us could meet somewhere in the middle without needing extremes to reach a balance.
Thanks,
VB centrist
It has do with it because Giuliani is on record as saying that he supports gay rights and he is the front runner. I just hope that Thompson gets in and then a real man can beat the crap out of the ACLU and all the others that try to get equal rights for moral degenerates
vheights, it was a misprint. Up yours..
first anonymous poster, I don't know what kind of Christian you are but when Christ returns, he will be taking me, not you, in the glorious Rapture. There is no compromise, vb centrist, on how to worship God.
Excellent post, Mark! Finally someone who has taken the time and effort to use the source of the absolutes to challenge the absolutes. I especially enjoyed reading the responses in the comments. I found it curious that there seemed to be two camps, one which wrote short, absolute, non-thought provoking comments, and one that did not. I wonder if there is a correlation being the engineer that I am:)
The Rapture is a flat out lie perpetuated by a group of lunatics, starting in the 18th Century, all hopped up on bad liquor.
Why does anyone care?
If you don't like the idea of homosexuality then you are in luck because you are not obligated to get to know any nor participate in any of their activities. If seeing gay people offends you, don't look. If you see them on the television, turn the channel. I see things everyday that offend me..from scantily clad women and men feeling each other up on prime time tv and magazines to people hawking SUV's to people blindly following a text that was created by a society with nearly nothing in common with mine. I let them do what they want to do because it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. God will be the ultimate judge of each individual and if it turns out gay people burn, then they burn for being what they are. But don't forget that they are the product of God's will and since he hasn't spoken directly to anyone on the issue in 2000 years, perhaps you should entertain the notion that they are here as a result of God's will...wouldn't that be a kick in the pants for you! The product of the devil argument will be forthcoming…who was it that kicked him to the curb? Oh yes…God. So you are still stuck with God’s will. Maybe you don't get to take in the rapture because you have been bucking God's will right along (I know that you won't lose a wink of sleep over that because your belief is strong...to my mind that makes it more entertaining).
I have a suggestion for rev and jackie...mind your own business...especially about things you can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT, you will be happier and so will everyone else.
It is my business because I have to look at them everyday. Gay pride festivals, how about a straight pride festival? Oh wait, that would be offensive.
John
what a very decent and logical human being you are, just wanted to say that.
And hater of pigs, I completely sympathise and empathise with your position, but you know what? You can't control everything. There is so much in the world that as John said, is not ideal or moral or good or right.
If we focus on ourselves and our families and loved ones, then we will be rewarded on earth as in God willing heaven, and we will hopefully lead by example.
So if we don't like something, we should not accept it and we should struggle against it. But at the same time our faith should make us not hate others or allow us to become hateful.
Successful communication is the truth spoken in love.
anon3,
I suppose you are one of those-people that claim to be Christians but in actuality are nowhere close-and that is why we have moral degenerates running around our country beause people like you forgive them.
hater of p, your reply made me smile :) Homosexuality is an act against God and it's not up to me to forgive an act against God. Each person will face the consequences of their life-choices in this life and the true life to come. But let's not focus on ONE act against God and forget all the glaring rest. Or okay the others, because our friends are doing it, or we don't like those people anyway...
Just out of curiosity, anon3, do you know any gay people?
Let he without sin cast the first stone...
Yes, taken slightly out of context, but still applicable. Unless you are willing to make the argument that you are without sin Hater of Pigs (good luck on that one, I think that status is reserved for real saints and supernatural beings), then you ought to listen to what the Lord says and reserve your judgement.
The real trouble is that most people don't understand that religions set up a balance between moral and immoral and natural and supernatural. This balance allows for one or the other to exist. There can be no light without dark, no understanding without misunderstanding, no good without evil. Trying to destroy or eradicate one or the other is futile as they both exist as a natural state of existence.
Enjoy the ride, acknowledge both and make an individual choice that suits you best, but don't expect or demand others to agree with yours because we all have to strike that balance not only for ourselves, but as participants in the broader universe.
For example, Hater, I find your position on homosexuality limited in vision, but that is okay, as long as you don't try to force your will upon me with threats and coercian. You exist as a counterweight to that which you protest against.
Ironic, isn't it?
Mark
wanted to clarify something because i think that's why you asked me the follow-up question & i don't wish to be misunderstood.
when i said Homosexuality is an act against God, what i meant was against God's will, specified through His messengers and in His books.
I don't believe that the most morally degenerate gay or straight person (heterosexuals can commit adultery incest paedophilia or a number of other forbidden and abhorred acts) i don't believe what we do in our daily lives including sex-lives can hurt or touch God in any way, good or bad, in the same way that i don't think that the most angelic person on earth can directly benefit God in any way. He who created the Heavens Earth and Humanity does not need man's advice good works or guidance, we need Him.
Homosexuality is forbidden for a perfectly logical reason, but that reason has nothing to do with it personally offending or hurting God, although the fact that it is forbidden speaks volumes. As John pointed out, God gave us choice and He KNOWS some of us will stray, the point is, who turns back, who repents, who asks and prays for forgiveness before going too far.
God is not our neighbour or the man on the street to be on our level, to be affected by any act of moral degeneracy of any kind, at the same time He is as close as our heart when we sincerely seek and speak to Him.
So, the forbidding of homosexuality (& so many other sins) is to do with boundaries and red lines in society and within the community of believers to differentiate between the faithful, between those who follow (through understanding and logical persuasion not always blindly) His will and those who reject it, and help us to live in healthy mind and soul, peace and harmony as well as self and respect for others.
But my original point in the post was this...how do you know that it is forbidden? Because it says so in the Bible? Well, if that's the case, then what about all of the other things I list? Are those laws still applicable today? Or are they outdated like homosexuality being "forbidden?"
This column...Love it, love it - you are so smart! miss you:)
i think a person uses their common sense, i read the Bible, but in addition for example, i also read the Talmud the Torah and the Quran. I believe the Bible IS the word of God, and IS the truth, but in some places, i also believe it was re-written by the hand of man, and those are the places in which there are discrepancies, or in which the essential message which is TRUE becomes modified. Where ALL the (montheistic) books and prophets, who extol the word and glory of God and do not promote themselves or an unjust path, agree : is that Homosexuality is, i don't know how else to put it diplomatically, strictly forbidden (for moral & social reasons.) In the very same way that adulterers (with FOUR witnesses, each directly witnessing the act itself, or their witness would forever be shunned by the community...and they would be branded liars forevermore....) would be stoned, for adultery. Without the 4 or more witnesses of the act itself, and with the alleged adulterers swearing an oath by God and before others that they did not commit the act, so help them God, they would be spared stoning and had to be left alone.
So, and I just want to be clear about this, the gay couple that I know...that love each other immensely, have been together for 13 years...have honoured and cherished each other, not screwed around and go to be every night at 9pm...they are going to hell?
If what you say is correct, that is sweet and that is devotion, i know that it would make many Christians sick to their stomach, and it makes me very uneasy to think about the partner-a-night ultra-promiscuous gay OR straight scenario, only because i've had chats where people bring things up in graphic detail and i tell them... i r-e-a-l-l-y don't want them to share those details with me... because it's an affront.
I'm not God & i don't know if they're going to hell. I think their being gay (and many Christians may disagree with me but this is just from what i know and have read) is not the only behavioural aspect that would determine an eternity in Hell.
The story of the prophet Lot (nephew of Abraham) is a parable and message to the world, though the city of Sodom was WAY out there in its level of complete moral degeneration and corruption -- it had the chance to repent on many levels and many occasions and the people did not. It reached the point of no return. That's not the only city and people that God 'smote' (smited?) or completely destroyed by the way for their moral baseness and FYI, the other cities weren't gay.
I know that in Judaism and Islam, the only thing that guarantees Hell-fire for all eternity (not get out of jail in 20 days fake eternity) is ASSOCIATION of other powers or deities with God, i.e. the worship of anything BUT God.
Everything else can be repented but must be SINCERELY repented, from he heart and through actions not just words.
God knows we are weak, the first man on earth, the prophet ADAM was weak. So He knows all too well that we are incomplete and imperfect -- and that is nothing to be ashamed of, it is a source of strength when we face it and recognise it and turn to God. We strive for completion when we truly recognise who we are, where we came from and where we are going.
Post a Comment