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Saturday, June 05, 2010

Beaten By Corporate Force

Take a look at our president. A pretty sad fucking picture, isn't it? Not surprising, though, when you consider what he has now come to realize in the last few weeks: our country...our world, actually, is being run by corporations and there is nothing we can do about it. The United States government is completely powerless to stop this oil spill and must sit on the sidelines as British Petroleum attempts yet another Shemp like move in order to plug the damn hole. Not that the government would want to help anyway as so many of them have been bought off by the oil industry.

It's been mighty interesting these last few weeks listening to the Cult trying to spin this one away. This is Obama's Katrina, some say. Others like Sarah Palin say that it proves her "Drill Baby Drill" line was right all along. I'm not sure how that works. To be fair, some of them haven't uttered a peep because they know how royally fucked we all are. The United States government is bowing down to the corporate cock and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

At the end of the day, it's example #343 of how the free market fantasy of the Cult has no practical application in reality. We've seen quite clearly what happens when private concerns have little or no oversight. In the case of the BP spill, take a look at five specific examples of the Mineral Management Services complete failure in doing its job of regulating.


But why would MMS do this? Aren't they supposed to be regulating BP?

In September 2008, reports by the Inspector General of the Interior Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a dozen officials of the MMS of unethical and criminal conduct in the performance of their duties. The investigation found MMS employees had taken drugs and had sex with energy company representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays amid "a culture of ethical failure", according to the investigation.

The New York Times's summary states the investigation revealed "a dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflicts of interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere for much of the Bush administration’s watch." Gee, I'm shocked.

And in May of 2010, after the spill, it was revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies.

Of course, none of these facts matter. In Cult Land, the government is still all powerful and tyrannical with President New Hitler at the helm sinking his leather boot heel into face of private industry. I guess it's up to the rest of us in the real world to solve this problem. Honestly, I don't have much faith that we will. Our culture and society have already shifted to be extremely distrustful of anything government related despite all evidence to the contrary.

Interestingly, though, a solution was presented in comments recently by none other than our very own Last in Line.

You all know that this could have been taken care of in 48 hours...the typical procedure oil companies and other governments have done many times in the past is to put a 100 yard tube down the well, send dynamite down the tube to blow up the well at the bottom, and pour concrete on top of it. Problem solved. What is going on is BP doesn't want to lose the well so they are doing all kinds of other half-assed crap that is further damaging the gulf region.

Why hasn't this been done yet?

The answer is quite simple, actually. Our "socialist" president doesn't want to be held responsible for BP losing money. He isn't going to allow the government to interfere in a private concern. In other words, he knows that corporations are running our world. He can't involve the government any more than it already is at present. Plus, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh would all up in the hizzy about the brown shirts again.

C'mon, last, don't you know that the government is completely evil? That they are forcing us to bend to their will with the butt of a gun? Let's just all get down on our knees and thank BP for all the black liquid love that is washing up on our shores right now in the Gulf. The Corporation is good....the Corporation is beautiful....anyone who thinks that the Corporation is anything other than pure goodness is a Marxist....(chant with me, touching yourself and Atlas Shrugged simultaneously)....The Corporation is good....the Corporation is beautiful....anyone who thinks that the Corporation is anything other than pure goodness is a Marxist....The Corporation is good....the Corporation is beautiful....anyone who thinks that the Corporation is anything other than pure goodness is a Marxist....The Corporation is good....the Corporation is beautiful....anyone who thinks that the Corporation is anything other than pure goodness is a Marxist....
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38 comments:

brendan said...

MMS officials had sex with energy company employees...so private industry really is fucking the public sector!

juris imprudent said...

C'mon, last, don't you know that the government is completely evil?

OK, M - what do YOU call what the folks in MMS did, if not evil.

And dammit, the two dated actions you mentioned were OBAMA ADMINISTRATION actions. Also, granting a waiver is NOT deregulation (it is a favor dispensed by the govt), so you are STILL full of shit on that count - with no admission that this was NOT an issue of deregulation.

Nor do you have a viable explanation for why the govt has not done more. This is YOUR hope and change moment, being played back in reality. Everything you believed about Obama two years ago was based on nothing but your own fantasies/projection.

Ed was quite right, you won't put up and you won't shut up. How fucking sad.

blk said...

Mark's basic point is that the corporate stranglehold over government is so great that even when the president of the United States wants to eliminate it, he is nearly powerless to do so. The people working in MMS were so corrupt and captive to corporate interests that the changes Obama put in place in 2009 were completely ineffective.

Basically, MMS was run by a series of Cheney cronies from Wyoming. Additionally, in the Gulf the MMS employees and the oil company employees had all known each other since childhood, and had all worked together in industry or in government at one time or another. So it's not really that shocking that they're sleeping with each other -- it was totally incestuous.

At this point, it looks like MMS will be totally dismantled and replaced with three other agencies.

The left is always complaining about big business, and the right is always complaining about big government. Under Bush II we had the worst of both worlds: big business running big government. It's going to take a long time to disentangle the tendrils big business has inserted into government.

Unfortunately, since the biggest threats we face seem to be coming from huge multinational corporations (BP, Toyota, GlaxoSmithKlein, Chinese conglomerates, etc.), we won't be able to scale down the size of government -- doing so would eliminate the only check on abuse by foreign corporations. Of course, our domestic corporations aren't any more benign -- look at Massey Energy and their coal mining operation.

We have to be extremely vigilant to make sure that these corporations keep their hands out of government or we'll have more repeats of this mess. Similarly, we have to make sure that government doesn't go crazy and cause big business untold misery. But right now it looks like the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of big business.

Mark Ward said...

Agreed, blk. I guess I'm surprised that you got what I was saying and juris didn't.

Juris, how long are you going to be blind to all of this? The people in MMS were lackeys of the oil industry. There as no oversight or regulation. You asked me in a previous thread:

"what regulation was relaxed/removed that led to this incident."

I showed you five plus the party time love orgy between the government and the oil industry and yet still it's the government's fault, Obama is a fake, and you continue to play silly semantic games. What's it going to take, juris?

6Kings said...

And we ask you again fool, are you planning on regulating the regulators? Do you not get that MMS IS the government regulation authority? You think throwing more failure at failure is a winning hand? Build another bureaucracy to watch the other bureaucracy?! So the oil company has to cozy up to two groups instead of one....nice plan.

Based on your long history of fail it wouldn't be a suprise.

brendan said...

So what's your solution, 6Kings? Nowhere in your statement do I see one. At least Last In Line offered one. You sound basically like Markadelphia described with your economic model shown to be riddled with fallacies.

When areas of commerce and land are being decimated, that would be the time for government to step in and take over. I agree with Last in Line that cement should be poured down there and the hole should be sealed forever. Or just blow the fucking thing up. After that, there needs to be basic regulation and oversight of safety on each of these oil rigs. Clearly, the oil companies can't do it themselves.

juris imprudent said...

The people in MMS were lackeys of the oil industry.

Aside from an appointee or two at the top, all the rest were career civil servants - you know, the people you always implicitly trust to run any govt program. The same kind of people that would be running HEALTH CARE if y'all had your way.

I showed you five

No, you did not show ONE regulation that was removed. You did show one where a WAIVER was granted. You do understand the difference don't you? [sigh - that is mostly a rhetorical question]

The problem here M is that you reduce the situation to as simplistic a cartoon as you accuse the cult of doing. In your formulation of them it is "govt bad, corporations good", and in your version it is "corporations bad, govt good". M, YOU do everything you accuse "the cult" of doing. EVERYTHING.

In this case, there was no deregulation of oil drilling, despite the inappropriateness and inherent conflict of interest within the MMS. Nor does it appear BP was cutting any corners during the drill; though they seem to have failed to use the 'industry standard' in dealing with the spill. The unanswered question is why the govt did not demand this.

And Obama is no "victim" in this, though I understand the liberal need for victimhood. That too is a sad cartoon substitute for real life.

6Kings said...

I must have missed M's economic prowess showcase - which thread? Economics is not his forte.

Is your idiotic solution of more regulation to regulate regulators a good one? That is as stupid as making another law around making robbery more illegal. How about accountability?

"When areas of commerce and land are being decimated, that would be the time for government to step in and take over."

No, steps should have been taken sooner, not after the decimation is occurring.
How about not dismissing other countries offers of help? How about not waiting until late into the spill to start mobilizing containment booms? How about acting like it is a crisis instead of hoping it would go away? How about asking other oil companies if there is a way to plug a deep drill and not taking BP's word on it? Government could have done a lot more initially but didn't and the largess shown is playing out for the world to see.

"After that, there needs to be basic regulation and oversight of safety on each of these oil rigs. Clearly, the oil companies can't do it themselves."

Really? So all the regulation about safety isn't really regulation? Just suggestion? They (BP) got a pass on the safety requirement from the government regulators! Maybe another regulation saying you can't give passes would cover it, eh?

For the well itself, I don't care how it gets fixed, just that it does get plugged. If BP is found to have skirted a fix to try an save the well, hold them accountable. I am sure Lawyers are already lined up and initiating claims against BP for lost wages, tourism, business failures, and everything else under the sun.

juris imprudent said...

I must have missed M's economic prowess showcase - which thread?

Corporate Abuse. A true classic - though not for any reason that M grasps.

To be fair, M did read and understand, Jim Manzi's piece - and even realized he had fallen for a serious error in liberal thought about taxes and economic prosperity. Unfortunately, that M has all but disappeared and this one is nothing but the mirror image of his accursed cult.

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

Something seems to be missing here.

What force was applied by the corporation/oil industry which gave the MMS no choice in whether or not to do those things for BP?

last in line said...

The question I asked about the solution was directed at you Obama voters on here since you can place yourselves in peoples heads and are able to jot down on here exactly why they are doing things and exactly what they are thinking when they are doing said things. I thought Obama said he was in charge of the response and that BP is operating under the control of his administration?

On this blog, with regards to Katrina, the response was the problem, not the possible prevention (that was when GWB was in charge). With the 35W bridge falling in Minneapolis, the response was dropped and prevention was back in style because Pawlenty could be needled. Now with this spill, the president/governor isn’t at fault at all for the response he claims he is in charge of. Thanks for the update.

You all created a pretty high standard for Obama so it’s only fitting he should be judged by that standard so why should I not take the opportunity to score some points against him/you guys when he comes up a little bit short in situations like this? Even in this thread, you and blk are pretty convinced that there are things going on here that are the fault of GWB. By insinuating that you can pick and choose which of America's problems can be blamed on Bush, you are also insinuating that presidents have control over everything that happens to a country. You know that I have always rejected the idea that the president "runs" the US economy and "creates" jobs but if you keep arguing that our problems are all the creation of that ol' debbil Bush, at what point is Obama to be faulted for not reversing them? How come Bush was so good at doing X but Obama is so bad at undoing X?

I’m well aware that there are structural factors in our economy and society that are much bigger than any one president but that's not how you all talk on here. During the campaign, Obama was going to do it all including heal our souls. Now that he is in charge, according the blk, he would do it all except for the sad fact that GWB used his presidential powers to thwart the forces of progress.

Finally, again you use the worst possible example you could think of to define conservatives and the free market. I support the free market but I don’t worship it at all costs...another example of you debating someone else other than the folks who post here.

Anonymous said...

As always, if someone in the private sector offers a bribe, that's evil and criminal.... but accepting one is only evil and criminal if the person doing the accepting is a Republican. If it's a Democrat, they couldn't help themselves.

juris imprudent said...

If it's a Democrat, they couldn't help themselves.

Well, heck, they were FORCED to accept.

Anonymous said...

Expecting a Democrat to obey the law is racist and unfair. Even if it's a law they wrote themselves and demanded passage of. Hell, look at Pay-Go.

last in line said...

Also, remember that you’re a Nazi for saying we should enforce our own immigration laws...But not for telling the Jews to beat it.

JT via GR

Boo-ya!

Mark Ward said...

Last: different situations call for different solutions. You do understand that, right? Trying to play gotcha with Katrina and the 35W bridge is silly. Katrina was an act of nature which caused mammoth devastation. It's the federal government's job to assist in situations like this. They didn't because they were staffed by incompetents on the orders of an incompetent. The state and local authorities also failed but the scope of the problem was beyond them. Of course, blaming Bush for anything now has become anathema so I might as well stop here on Katrina.

The 35W bridge failed because of lack of regulation and oversight. Our governor was been saying for quite awhile that private industry can take care of itself without government interference. How did they do?

The BP spill was a man made event. It happened because of lack of regulation, failure in oversight, and the incestuous relationship between big oil and our government. Do you deny that such a relationship exists? Do you think that the Bush Administration was more favorable or less favorable to the oil industry? But remember, I can't blame Bush for any of this....

What this shows all of us is that private industry, left to its own devices, is incapable of policing itself. Your ideology has been proven completely wrong and the evidence is giant pile of oil fucking up people's lives in the Gulf of Mexico. President Obama is being kind by taking responsibility for this mess. The actual blame should be on the culture of complete fucking idiots who have de-sacked the government and give endless free pass after pass to private corporations.

There was a time when the government was looked upon as being benevolent and helpful to our society. That all changed when they started helping niggers, coddling spics, giving fags rights (you know, helping people who were being mistreated), murdering babies, and not installing the Theocracy of Jesus Christ as the mechanism of government. Once that happened, they became evil.

And they have been ever since which is the only reason why is "coming up short."

Mark Ward said...

Oh, and there is a difference between Helen Thomas and the AZ lawmakers who passed the immigration bill. Helen Thomas is an anti-Semitic old bag (like way too many people in the world) who is now retired. The AZ lawmakers are still in power, passing laws that reflect more paranoia than reality (see: FBI crime stats 2009) and are, in fact, quite similar to the "Papers, please" laws in that one country back then.

Anonymous said...

The state and local authorities also failed but the scope of the problem was beyond them.

The scope of which problem? The entire response to the hurricane was beyond the New Orleans city government, but nobody asked them to take that on either, nor did they. Are you suggesting the city, county and state governments shouldn't have been expected to be competent to handle the hurricane evacuation of one city? Or readiness assessment of levees and canals of one city, the place that if you speak of "Canal Street", no one even has to ask what city you're talking about? That rational hurricane preparedness for people living nearly in the exact geographic center of "Hurricane Alley" is asking too much?

Should we hold their hands while they go potty in the morning, too?

juris imprudent said...

It happened because of lack of regulation, failure in oversight

Nope, it happened because it is an inevitable consequence of drilling for oil. But I am not surprised that you think it was a regulatory failure, even though no one has accused BP of cutting corners during the drill.

Even if BP was less than stellar, you can NEVER have a perfect safety record. What you SHOULD do is have a plan to deal with the things you don't want to happen. Mitigating the bad effects that come with any human endeavor. You have the right people in charge now, and they still fucked up the response. And you have NO answer for that.

Anonymous said...

...and are, in fact, quite similar to the "Papers, please" laws in that one country back then.

I just cannot resist, simply because comments like this are so damnably amusing.

You have left yourself an unfortunate (for you) choice, Marxaphasia. You are either:

1. Intentionally lying just to score some kind of "raaacist!" point,

or 2. Claiming that federal law is equivalent to "papers please".

So which is it?

6Kings said...

Here is the idiot in chief exposed for you:

http://bit.ly/dctfuw

In other words, complete fail and that is why he is looking like that picture.

Last in line said...

"How did they do?"

Nice leading statement. Conclusion - private industry failed because 1 bridge fell down and 99.999999% of the rest of the bridges haven't fallen yet. Failure!!! A large majority of oil wells don't explode either but that doesn't matter - one does and you have INSTANT IDEOLOGY FAIL!!

You can blame Bush all you want but again - if Bush created that incestous relationship, Obama should be able to undo the relationship and if not, people are probably going to ask you why (Perhaps the reason Obama hasn't told them to blow up the well as I suggested is because he is the biggest receipient of cash from BP). You won't or can't tell us why which is why you went back on offense and blamed Bush. Being on defense just isn't as fun and being asked to explain actions of folks you don't know is tougher than hurling accusations, which is easy.

I'm not denying the relationship betweem big oil and our govt exists...not sure where you got that from...wasn't from my post. It's kind of easy to sit back and demand results from the other side who is in power and that's what I'm doing. Get used to it, you did it for 6 years.

Anonymous said...

It's kind of easy to sit back and demand results from the other side who is in power and that's what I'm doing. Get used to it, you did it for 6 years.

And he's still doing it after they have been out of power for 3 1/2 years.

Anonymous said...

The answer is quite simple, actually. Our "socialist" president doesn't want to be held responsible for BP losing money. He isn't going to allow the government to interfere in a private concern. In other words, he knows that corporations are running our world. He can't involve the government any more than it already is at present.

And yet, this being your opinion, you think the proper solution is to give government more power. Which, in your own opinion, will be used by corporations against ordinary people, and which ordinary people will be unable to use to defend themselves against those corporations. After all, "our world, actually, is being run by corporations and there is nothing we can do about it. The United States government is completely powerless to stop this oil spill and must sit on the sidelines as British Petroleum attempts yet another Shemp like move in order to plug the damn hole."

And why, in your own opinion, is the government "completely powerless"? Because "so many of them have been bought off by the oil industry." In other words, offering a bribe = force, accepting a bribe = being mugged.

Since you apparently know everything that can be known, answer me this one: How is it that giving a government that you assume is already in the pocket of big corporations more power end up as anything other than giving those same big corporations more power? Especially since you've already shown conclusively that politicians (only on your own side, to be sure) who are bought off (Murtha, Rangel, etc.) are people you and your party are willing to defend?

Conservatives aren't the ones selling the US out to the big corporations, Mark. Ask GM. Or AIG. Or Goldman-Sachs.

last in line said...

After thinking about it, what part of my ideology has been completely proven wrong? It can't be the oil drilling part since the headline in yesterdays WSJ above the fold said "Obama to re-open Gulf oil drilling". It can't be the "fewer regulations" bit because the democrats have majorities in the house, senate and have their guy in the white house...and they were elected to stop all this corporate cock-sucking weren't they? This happens when the "we need more regulations" crowd takes power and it's still the fault of the "fewer regulations" crowd.

I know different situations call for different solutions but you weren't offering up solutions, you were assigning blame.

Didn't the stimulus bill make the govt more "benevolent and helpful to our society"? If not, why not?

According to the New York Times, "At least a dozen federal agencies have taken part in the spill response, making decision-making slow, conflicted and confused, as they sought to apply numerous federal statutes."

Did it really take the Department of Homeland Security more than a week to classify the spill as an event calling for the highest level of federal action? When state officials in Louisiana tried over and over to win federal permission to build sand barriers to protect fragile coastal wetlands from the oil, they got nowhere. Really? "For three weeks, as the giant slick crept closer to shore," the NYT reports, "officials from the White House, Coast Guard, Army Corps of Engineers, Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Environmental Protection Agency debated the best approach."

3 weeks?

Anonymous said...

Just out of curiosity, did those folks on rooftops in the Lower Ninth Ward have to wait 3 weeks?

juris imprudent said...

3 weeks?

If M says anything it will be about how this is the fault of a) Bush, b) corporations, c) Republicans, d) Libertarians, e) the cult, f) all of the above.

brendan said...

Juris:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/06/09/Rig-survivors-say-BP-cut-corners-on-rig/UPI-90781276095469/

Mark Ward said...

Linoge, I have a post coming soon that will address the difference between the federal law and the new state law. For the time being, I think you need to chuck the Cult glasses and see how your bias is affecting your judgment.

Brandon, nice link. I wonder if juris will now admit his error.

6Kings-"The oil spill and the lack of urgency serves a purpose in the commie green agenda." Nice Cult site. And nice Rove as well. I know it sucks, dude, that Bush was a complete moron. You're just going to need to get over it. Sorry, but sometimes there aren't two sides to a story.

Last-I think it's fair to hold people accountable for their actions. By saying that something was Bush's fault these days elicits the same response as when I call someone on being a racist. It simply isn't done. There are no racists and Bush was completely competent.

Your ideology of which I speak is the fairy tale land where federal government=benign neglect. It has no practical application in reality. The more I look at this situation, the more I see President Obama taking responsibility for the nine year olds..again! And those same nine year olds (and supporters) having the audacity to turn around, shift blame, and deny everything though game playing. Go look at the site that that 6Kings linked above as an example of this. What a fucking fantasy. But, of course, it has to be. They are never wrong...heaven forbid!

To be honest, it's getting really fucking old.

Anonymous said...

Ah, so rather than address the question, and the comparison already existing in the link I provided you, you resort to personal, ad hominem attacks, and an unending repetition of your meaningless "cult" bullshit.

Predictable, as always, Marxy. Fucking pathetic, but predictable.

juris imprudent said...

Fair enough Brendan, that is the FIRST article I've seen, and certainly the FIRST posted here, that suggests BP was cutting corners. Prior, there was NO evidence suggesting that this was the case. Are you claiming to be prescient? Or did you just finally get lucky that an article appeared WEEKS after the event?

As I said earlier M, "even if BP was less than stellar" - which there is at least now a credible accusation in support of - not the bullshit that you were slinging; you still can't expect bad shit to not happen - but you can prepare to minimize it when it does. BP did not, and we can fairly fault them for that. The Obama Administration STILL can't get a handle on the situation - but you hold them blameless, like a child that can't admit that Daddy isn't perfect.

6Kings said...

"6Kings-"The oil spill and the lack of urgency serves a purpose in the commie green agenda." Nice Cult site. And nice Rove as well. I know it sucks, dude, that Bush was a complete moron. You're just going to need to get over it. Sorry, but sometimes there aren't two sides to a story" - Mark

What? That wasn't in this article. Care to comment on the article or just comment on someone's reaction? How does Bush figure in this? He wasn't even mentioned in the article. Geez, you can't comment on issues, just reactions to it by other people?! Sad.

6Kings said...

Here is a better article that provides a better of picture of how Obama should be handling the crisis.

http://blogs.bnet.com/harvard/?p=7202&tag=nl.e713

Good information and a good compare and contrast baseline for you.

Anonymous said...

I know it sucks, dude, that Bush was a complete moron.

Fine. For the sake of argument, so stipulated.

Now, would you care to explain why it's Bush's fault that after 3 1/2 years of "the most ethical Congress ever" and a year and a half of "the most transparent, accountable Administration ever" that's going to "change the way Washington works", the people who fired him didn't even attempt to clean up the mess that they've been claiming they were going to clean up for years now?

How is it Bush's fault that they can't be bothered to do their fucking jobs?

dick nixon said...

Because according to you it's not their job. It's the job of BP. So make up your mind: do you want the government out of business or not?

Anonymous said...

Dick, do you even read what you're responding to before you make some asinine comment? Or do you just lack the ability to say things that make any sense?

Anonymous said...

Okay let's see...

The MMS under Bush/Cheney was corrupt and has far too many ties to the oil industry.

Okay, I can buy that one.

But correct me if I'm wrong, what Mark is claiming here is that the fact that it's still corrupt and still has too many ties to the oil industry (after Democrats took Congress in 2006 promising to "end the culture of corruption" and Obama gained the Presidency in 2008 specifically promising to "change the way Washington works" and decrying Bush/Cheney's ties to big oil.... this is what you guys voted for, right? This is why you thought supporting Obama/Reid/Pelosi was a good idea, right?) is still all Bush/Cheney's fault, even after he's had a year and a half to clean up the MMS, with its corruption and its ties to big oil, right?

You know, I could accept that excuse for his first 6 months, maybe his first year. But Mark wants to think the problems at MMS are still the fault of Republicans, even though 16 months after they lost the Presidency and 40 months after they lost Congress, the Democrats still haven't even begun cleaning up the corruption they ran against. If anything, they've enabled it even more.

And you, Dick... so far as I can tell, you think it's all BP's fault for buying off Obama and the MMS and putting them in their pocket, but Obama and the people at the MMS are blameless for allowing themselves to be bought off.

And Mark calls this a failure to regulate the oil industry, and thinks we need more regulation in response. Is it truly beyond your powers of reasoning to wonder what purpose more regulation will serve when nobody bothers to enforce the regulations we already have? Especially considering that Democrats are already on record as being against enforcing existing laws in practically any area of human endeavor you can name?

Anonymous said...

The answer is quite simple, actually. Our "socialist" president doesn't want to be held responsible for BP losing money.

So are you saying it's BP's fault that Obama is for sale? Or rather, already bought and paid for?