Contributors

Tuesday, April 10, 2007

Tim Gets The Sack

It's been awhile. Time to haul out the Shitsack.

A couple of weeks ago, my old pal Merrill, staunch neocon who works out at the same gym I do, cornered me by the elipticals. "Hey, Mark. You liberals are trying to raise my taxes again. What gives? It's just sour grapes because Governor Pawlenty did something they could never do: balance the budget without raising taxes," she decried with the usual conservative fervor.

Not being too well versed on economics, I just nodded and listened as she droned on about how poor people, schools, and the elderly are stealing money from ordinary citizens like herself. This wasn't the first time I have heard a conservative trumpet the fact that our governor turned a 4.5 billion dollar deficit into a surplus. I think this is one of the few things neocons have left, which, incidentally, can be found on page 29 of the Conservative Talking Points Manual. Knowing neocon's "facts" the way I do, I decided to take a look into the current budget battle and see if I could make sense of it all.

First of all, Governor Pawlenty is completely full of shit when he says that he balanced the budget through spending cuts. They didn't even make a dent. What did make a dent is the $1 billion dollar increase in state licenses and fees as well as the $1.4 billion dollars in property tax increases (that's $866 per household) since T-Paw took office. How the spending did make a dent was in the level of service the state offers. Schools are in financial disarray, the roads have gone to hell, and cities have been laying off policemen and firemen left and right.

Second, the current budget battle is not over raising taxes. It's about returning the tax percentages to what they were before the poster child for rich people welfare took office. According to the Minnesota Revenue Service, households earning between $45,000 and $105,000 pay 12.3 percent in state and local taxes, while households earning above $105,000 pay 10.9 percent. The very wealthiest Minnesotans, who earn above $355,000, pay 9 percent.

Are you fucking kidding me?

I am paying a third more, percentage wise, in taxes than someone making three times as much money as our family does? And people are defending this? What cracks me up about fiscal conservatives is the don't just tell the simple truth. It's not that they distrust governments spending habits. It's that rich people want to keep their grubby hands on their sweaty money. They are greedy. Pick up any history book about any country and you will see the same story. People who have wealth essentially steal money from the people who don't to maintain their power and control over them. The fact that we think America is somehow "different" and is a magical place filled with freedom shows how wonderully vain and shortsighted we truly are.

Anyway, the plans that are currently being proposed in the Democratic controlled state congress return the percentages back to what they were five years ago. And it wants to add higher taxes to gas, liquor and cigarette purchases. Gee, what a shock that ol T-Paw would be against this as well....y'know, cutting into the purse of the gas, alcohol, and tobacco lobby which pretty much owns conservatives across the country including him.

So, Tim, my old friend, I have been too busy of late trying to spread the word about the dangerous psychotics in DC destroying my children's future. Up until now, you have slipped under the radar but now? Now, I am going to be up your ass with a tweezer when you start flapping your gums about taxes and liberals because you are a liar. Your only mission in life is to make sure that the wealthy of this state continue to bleed poor people dry.

And, thus, you get the Shitsack.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Let’s see what 12.3% of 80,000 is, take 80,000 and multiply it by .123 and you get $9840.

Let’s see what 9% of $355,000 is, take 355,000 and multiply it by .09 and you get $31,950.

See, the richer person is paying over 3 times more than the other person in taxes.

Why don’t you inform your readers us what the rates were 5 years ago? If they are higher than the current rates, and if you favor higher taxes for booze, gas and smokes, then I’d say it IS about raising taxes. A large majority of the people who smoke make under $45,000 per year.

What you have done here is break this all down into the "ability-to-pay" method. Instead of computing who is actually paying the taxes, you figure individual taxes should be paid as a percent of someone's personal income, and not as a percent of the total tax burden.

Then why is it every time the Revenue Department releases a tax study, the class warriors among us cherry-pick the data to suit their own redistributionist agenda. It's no one's business in a free society what you make as long as you're paying your "fair" share of the burden. And why are you so concerned about government getting their money above all else?

According to the 2004 data in the latest report, of the $5.8 billion the state of Minnesota collected in individual income taxes, just over $3.2 billion was paid by the wealthiest 10 percent (those making more than $105,450) of Minnesota households (that's a remarkable 55.4 of the total). Those lucky duckies also paid more than 27 percent respectively of the sales, business and property taxes.

No one is saying the rich are "better people" but from your attitude it's sounds like you think the rich are bad people. Those jerks, they're working hard and getting ahead, how dare they! Why should someone have to pay more for the same thing just because they're getting ahead?

America is the wealthiest nation on Earth. We didn't get this way because of socialization or unions; we got this way by providing incentive to achieve. Now you'd like to remove some of these incentives by penalizing the rich with more taxes, wealth redistribution, and more rewards for people who did nothing to earn the money. How is that going to help your childrens future? Just transfer on this “victim” mentality you have to them.

Our quality of life didn't come from forced taxation, it came from people like Bill Gates and Henry Ford. You don't have to like their tax rate, but your high standard of living is a direct result of their ideas. I believe our society is so successful precisely because of the benefits it bestows on those that innovate. I know that there are exceptions to everything. For every person that you find that is making a fortune off of screwing people, I can find you one that is contributing to society through innovation.

I don’t believe for a second that so many people out there simply go to work merely because they would like to make the world a better place. Get off that high horse. They go to work to pay their freakin' bills just like the rest of us. The point is that it's not right to take someone's money that they earned and give it to someone else just because you think it's right. I'd wager a bet that you ask for monetary compensation from your work, do you not? And I would also wager that if they gave a big boost in pay, you'd be happy with the raise and would look at it as a reward for the fine job that you do.

Aside from the essentials needed to perpetuate the society, like defense and roads among many others, there is no justification for thieving from my paycheck. What is mine should be mine and where I choose to spend it should also be mine. I guess that makes me greedy – deal with it. I still give plenty of money to charity.

I know being in favor of helping the poor makes you feel like you are better because you think you care more. But I think it really means that you want to be good (this is noble) but you haven't quite figured out that taking from one group of people and giving it to another does not achieve your goal in the long run. I don’t think that businessmen are all evil greedy people. Like you, they want their children's world to be better than their own, but they realize you need to work within the framework of REALITY. Happy, happy fun time fair-for-everybody wishes are great for children's television and church, they don't work very well anywhere else. People only work hard for a reward. It's not always money, but that's certainly not the incentive to remove if you are looking for progress. Due to my grandmothers poor health, I really want a cure for cancer (those charities get the most attention from me). The best way to get it is to provide an environment where the person or company that solves this problem is given a great deal of money.

Based on the way you treat people who disagree with you on here, I probably won't be back so fire away.

Anonymous said...

Taxpayer,

More rewards for people who do nothing? How about people that work their asses off, have two or sometimes three jobs just to barely put food on the table?

Your statistics mean nothing to me as someone who sees poverty every single day in my school. I want you do to yourself a favor. Start talking to people that are poor and tell them (I dare you) to just "work harder and get ahead like rich people do." After all, that's why their rich, right?

"Defense" and "thieving from paycheck" in the same sentence? Hah, that's a good one. People like you scream loud and hard when money from you paycheck goes to government sponsored care for poor people but welfare for defense contractors? Well, that's OK by folks like you I guess. Sheesh, what a flippin' joke! Where's your humanity?

Oh, wait. That's right. You give to charity. Do you honestly think that a privately funded charity has the same muscle and power as the state government? The same budget?

Take some time to learn from poor people before you go mouthing off about a two groups of people, rich and poor, that you clearly know nothing about.

Anonymous said...

Taxpayer,

Here's a dollar. Go buy a fucking clue. Rich people, with the possible exception of people like the Gang of 200 here in our state, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffet, want to keep their money. They are rich because they rob poor people blind throught the influence they have over our government. Our system is a class system that is as old as the hills and unless you are wealthy, you are being fleeced by THEM not the government.

Here is a stat for you: 20 years ago CEOs made, on average, 20 times as much as their average worker. Now they make 400 times as much. Do you think that is fair? There is some real thievery.

Realize this: rich people pay people, such as AM 1280 radio personalities and conservative economics pundits, to continue the lie that our country is somehow equal. They are lying to you and making you believe things about poverty that simply aren't true.

I make well over $200,000 dollars a year and would happily pay 15 percent of my salary in state taxes if it meant better services for people less fortunate then myself or a better education for my nephews. Giving that money to charity won't help a broken state system that is sorely in need of funding.

Anonymous said...

Torch & VHeights...why so angry?

johnwaxey said...

Taxpayer and Taxman,

Many people I know are tired of putting up with lies from people who claim to be fiscally responsible in our government and use it as a platform to continue to "spend without taxing." It does not take a genius to figure out that you can not continue to spend money that you don't have. Or worse yet, cut funds to needed social institutions like education so that you can have the appearence of a fiscally responsible party. So there is a growing body of people out there that are sick of the bullshit.

As for who pays taxes and how much, I am one of those people with three freaking jobs and my spouse works as well. We do have children, but they are still young enough that there isn't a huge financial burden. We are barely making it. In my community and state, the local and state government are increasing my childrens class size, increasing my taxes, cutting school programs like music and art...why? Because there isn't enough money. Something is wrong with this system. The answer (in my case) cannot be to raise taxes for people in my income bracket. That leaves the income brackets that are above mine. You don't want to have your taxes raised? Then lobby hard to get our freaking asses out of Iraq and other places around the world where we are not welcome and don't belong. I have said this before and I will say it again...when there is gross inequality in the standard of living between classes, there are two options...revolt and/or slow societal decay. If you people with your Cadillac Escalades and your McMansions value those possessions, you had better consider alternative answers (other than No) to raising your taxes cause the lemon has been squeezed dry from the middle and lower classes.

This country suffers from delusions that revolution can't happen here. I wonder if the nobility of France knew that revolution was coming? As for societal decay...look around you...and I am not talking about your gated community or the short trip to "insert high priced grocery store name here" or at your private school. We are producing people in our education system who cannot write, read or think critically and are apathetic to their own existence because they know it won't get any better. Working hard to get richer is not an option when you don't have access to good education (note: not just free babysitting service, but good education).

Long story short...we are sick and tired of the lies that are coming out of people who claim to be conservatives mouths. Your governor claims to have balanced the budget, we have a former governor (Thompson) who is making the same claim. Don't believe it. He left for Washington before the shit hit the fan in Wisconsin, we are still paying for his spend as you go policies.

There is a prevailing attitude among the wealthy that they are above everyone else in this country, that somehow they are better or more worthy, or shouldn't have to support the society underneath them. Guess what? Without that society, they are not wealthy or powerful. Invest more in society and it will continue to support you. Fail to make that investment and you will end up paying more in the end.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps some people cannot read or write because they spent too much time in music or art class.

But that certainly is a solution. You cannot aford what you want and someone else can. So you want to take it from them.

How does that make you any different from a thief?

Mark Ward said...

Wow. I guess things got started without me. And boy are they going!

Taxman, I have no idea what you are talking about.

John Waxey, you are correct sir!

vheights, go girl!

the torch, dude, you totally stole my thunder. I was going to throw out that stat about the CEOs. Fucker....

To respond to taxpayer,

Your stats are probably sound but you forgot one small detail. That $9000 that meidan income person is paying in taxes hurts him a lot more than the $30K coming out of the rich person's pocket. See the post entitled "The Gap" that I put up today for more on that.

I don't know what your salary is but if you are in the upper income bracket, I can understand, somewhat, your reluctance to part with your money. Your unwillingness to part with it, however, proves my point about greed.

If you are in the same income bracket as myself, then I guess I am at a loss to understand why you would NOT want your taxes lowered, which is what the Democrats are prosposing. I think the 12 percent would fall to 10 percent or so for us and the 9 and 10 percent for the rich would rise to 10 and 11 percent respecitvely. That is their plan. So, my question is: do you want lower taxes or not?

As far as thievery goes, how do you feel about the 9.5 billion dollars that Haliburton "lost" in Iraq? Where is your cry about them mismanaging YOUR tax dollars? Or do you only get angry about programs that actually do some good with your money?

Anonymous said...

Greed because you don't want to give up what you've rightfully, legally earned?

Haliburton (if they're guilt) and Enron and the like "ARE" greedy and should be prosecuted. But I'm talking about people who earn a good income legally.

"hurts him more than the rich man"...but we all knew that was coming, didn't we? For you, it's not about the equality of opportunity, but about the equality of outcome. Thank you Mr. Marx.

Mark Ward said...

Taxman,

Here is something from one of my current textbooks that you might find interesting since you brought up Karl Marx. The topic is how the conservative agenda in this country reframes perceptions.

"This reframing distracts people from the collective critical reflection necessary for social change. Consider, for example, the way US History Books tend to equate capitalism with freedom and democracy. Then consider the way people in the US are socialized to understand socialism and communism, not as alternative strucutres or points of of entry into a critical dialogue about capitalism, but as the virtual opposite of freedom and democracy."

"In fact, a graduate student at the university where I teach who was in the process of attaining US citizenship told me that during her interview the interviewer asked her if she had ever been a member of a communist group. The very act of asking such a question during a citizenship hearing demonstrates neither freedom nor democracy. As a result of these sorts of mixed messages, of the collective socialized fear of these concepts (like that of feminism), one cannot discuss socialism, or even the scholarship of Karl Marx, without being cast to the "un-American" fringes."

Taxman, whether you know or not or want to admit it or not, YOU are being conditioned by the wealthy elite of this country, through the media and the government, to believe that all concepts of equality of wealth are un-American, evil, and would ultimately destroy our country. That is incorrect.

What it would destroy is THEIR ability to lord over us and keep us mooing like the cattle that we all seem to want to be.

Anonymous said...

What...the...heck...are...you...talking...about...??

Nobody is lording over me. In case you're too thick to figure it out, I'm the one looking to rid the populace of someone lording over them. ..someone reaching into people's pockets to take what they've rightfully earned and daring to call them greedy if they object. Wake up Einstein...Who's being led around here?

Go put on your 'che' t-shirt and sing the praises of the communist utopia. You and your ilk are blind to the fact that few people jump on boats and try to flee America for Cuba or China.

oh...why do I even bother...piss off.

Mark Ward said...

No one is lording over you? Good god, wake up!

I don't have any intention of putting on a che shirt or moving to a communist country. Every country that has claimed to be "communist" or "socialist" throughout history has perverted the original concept and made it just like every other system...a ruling class and a servile class. Russia was that way, China is that way, Cuba...all of them. I want you to understand fully that I am not advocating any of that.

If I were a CEO and my board told me that I could make as much as 10 million dollars in compensation, I would ask for one quarter of that and give every person on the lower rungs of my company a higher salary. I think I could get by on 2.5 million a year. I would also expect a fair tax for someone in my salary range so the basic services in my city, state, and country aren't constantly in a state of FUBAR, like they are now.

Why can't we start making the future that Gene Rodenberry envisioned in Star Trek a reality? Where everyone shares equally in all things...especially technology that could bring food to everyone.

Don't ever mistake me for someone who would support people like Castro, Stalin, or Mao...men who were and are the exactly like the people that run our country today.

Anonymous said...

Sorry about stealing your thunder, Mark.

Anonymous said...

Taxman,

Do you want to know why I am so angry and frustrated? Because of people like yourself who say things like "reaching into people's pockets to take what they've rightfully earned." So, every single person who is rich has rightfully earned that money? I highly doubt it.

This country's economical and political system is based on screwing people over to get ahead. Markadelphia is correct in stating that it is no different than any other country, communist and socialist included, in raping the people of their livelihoods. Just who do you claim to be protecting? Someone who makes $500,000 a year? Is that you? How much do you make?

I am curious, though, what do you think about all the wealthy people in this state that got together last year to request higher taxes? The so called "Gang of 200?"

Anonymous said...

VHeights, you work in a school. Are you a teacher? If so, how the heck did you conclude that I said poor people do nothing? I never said that. I said poor people did nothing to earn the money that you want to redistribute to them. That’s a far cry from saying that they do nothing or are lazy people.

What’s with the assumptions people? I work for a non-profit organization so don’t tell me I don’t know about poor people (I’m not rich either). I suspect due to my mission trips to Honduras and Guatemala, you and I have much different definitions of what "poor" really is.

I work with big businesses every day and many of them are very generous in helping out with the community they live in. Not all of them are thieves, they are providing a product or a service that is in demand by someone else in society.

The defense of this nation IS a responsibility of our government and if you think I’m OK with money going to defense contractors like Halliburton for this piece of shit war we find ourselves in now you are clearly mistaken. This administration will go down as one of the worst in history but there really isn’t much any of us can do till 2008 on that front.

Privately funded charity does not have the power that the government has but I think they get much better results than the government does and they are far more efficient. Does the phrase “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you” ring true in your head? How much of every dollar the government spends on education actually makes it to the classroom?

I have 1 child who is 15 years old so I do have a stake in the future of this country. My wife and I certainly are not rich but we would like to be someday. I drive a 6 year old Honda Accord, not an Escalade and I live in a small home in northeast Minneapolis. With our salaries combined we make less than $100,000 per year. So your point about greed is not proven whatsoever Markadelphia.

Torch wrote "Here's a dollar. Go buy a fucking clue. Rich people, with the possible exception of people like the Gang of 200 here in our state, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffet, want to keep their money. They are rich because they rob poor people blind throught the influence they have over our government."

With the exception of Buffet? Let me educate you on how Buffet gained much of his fortune. He built a business on what's called the "destructive impact of the estate tax" which forces the families of deceased people to sell the property that they inherit just to pay off the taxes. It's like a punishment for parents who planned to leave their children something for the future. The heirs have nine months to pay the "death tax." Because of the time limit, their children are often forced to sell property at fire sale prices. Berkshire Hathaway (of which Buffet is the largest share holder) is the business that likes to swoop in and buy the property. Berkshire Hathaway buys up property at below market value from people who can’t pay their taxes to the federal government, and then takes its time to sell the property to make a humongous profit.

So before you insult anybody else Torch, you’d better save that dollar and educate yourself. Sounds like your buddy Warren is doing the robbing courtesy of influence from the federal government.

So no matter how much money you wish you could be giving to the government, the government will come back and tell you that they don’t have enough. You people want to rid society of the "thieves" known as businessmen and give the money to politicians. Are you telling me that politicians are that much better? Are you telling me that the government runs things better and more efficiently than private industry could? If so, give me 3 examples.

No vheights, every single rich person did not rightfully earn their money (inheritance comes to mind) but does that automatically mean they are raping another persons livelihood? Is it really that black and white? Is it really "one or the other"?

Anonymous said...

Exactly mark...."you'd" give away your money. Well, bully for you. And if I choose not to? In your system, well, you'd just take it then. And if I object, well then it's just off to the re-education camp, eh comrade?

vheights...go home. Can you be any dumber? Really? So most that make some money do it illegally? Puuuleeese...and your examples are?? What Enron? Yup they're guilty and being prosecuted? Arthur Anderson...again guilty and prosecuted. They broke the law and are paying for it. Give me a concrete example of someone screwing over the poor to get ahead legally. Please. I make a good income...how am I getting ahead on anything but my hard work?

Mark is a communist and not a very bright one at that. Perhaps if he had a job he would sing a different tune, but I doubt it.

Honestly, regardless of wehter you like the man, if someone compares Bush to Mao or Stalin, you're simply a dolt. Stalin and Mao killed millions. People applauded for hours out of fear the first one to stop clapping would be shot. The Red Terror, The Cultural Revolution. And because Bush likes lower taxes you equate?

I hate to swear but you people are f'ing morons of the highest order.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with Mark sometimes, I agree with him sometimes and he has a habit of not giving the entire story sometimes but people need to lay off the "unemployed" taunts. That's the choice he and his wife have made and being a parent is a job in itself, an important one at that.

While it may allow us to question what he says about corporate America and working at a job in general, that's about it so leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

Hey rld, take off. Mark brings it on himself. Perhaps if he didn't try to pass himself off as an expert on everything (particularly economics) and even says how he's described by friends as this "over-educated" expert yada yada yada...vanity without credibility.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mark,

Don't let the Man (taxman that is-hee hee) get you down. You are absolutely correct in everything you say. The rich get ricer and the poor can go fuck themselves and that's the country we live in.

Taxman's biggest problem is that you are getting into that part of his neocon brain that can't admit when he's wrong. This statement

"if someone compares Bush to Mao or Stalin, you're simply a dolt"

Really? So Bush gets a free pass because he only has killed thousands of people in Iraq...but millions (like Stalin and Mao), now that's really bad! Remove your head from your rosy smelling ass where everything your country does is perfect. One of these days you are going to be face to face with someone whose life has been devasted by the direct actions of this president.

I wonder if you will be able to be a man about it and admit your repsonsibility in the matter.

Oh, and I left another comment in "The Gap" post. Go read it.