As I have stated many times on this blog, we are in a new era of politics. The rules are different, folks, and many of you, on both the left and the right, don't get it. The American people have had quite enough of the bullshit, thank you very much, and expect more out of their candidates. We have finally started down the right path. Not stellar yet, but down the right path
So it really cracks me up when I see folks who still follow the old way of doing things. I offer as an example the Reverend Jesse Jackson and former Senator Phil Gramm. Jesse Jackson has become a caricature of himself. He sees enemies and "people talking down to black people" around every corner.
Note to Jesse: Barack Obama is black.
And Phil Gramm is really on the ball, isn't he? Our economic problems are all in our head, according to Phil, and we should just "get over it." This is a classic and shining example of how tone deaf conservatives have become in this election regarding what is going on this country. It will ultimately prove to be their undoing.
Jesse and Phil represent the past...the old way of doing business. Both of them look terribly out of step and foolish any time they are put in front of a microphone. And it makes my heart warm to see people recognize them for what they both are...
A joke.
20 comments:
Phil Gramm is great! What a shame he's working for dud like McCain.
By the way, he also makes an award winning chili:
http://www.virtualcities.com/ons/tx/gov/txgvpg1.htm
So, I take it you agree with him, dave?
The names Fanny or Freddie mean anything to you, dave?
I'll be waiting for the answer which I know will include at least two of the following:
1. Everything always works out for the best in the free market.
2. Any government regulation is akin to communism.
3. People who are struggling now should just pull themselves up by the boot straps and try harder.
4. All US Corporations act in the best interests of their employees and the public at large. Thievery and rackets ONLY occur in the government. To suggest otherwise is traitorous to our beloved company...oops I mean country.
5. People aren't being ripped off by US Corporations due to lack of government oversight (aka complete failure of the conservative ideology). It's their own fault for not being responsible enough.
Sorry Mark, no such answer coming. I’ve decided to confine myself to simple 1-liners for a while, a la the standard readership. Though admittedly, it’s intellectually lazy, it’s far less time consuming yet provides commentary in the concise, sound bites format more digestible to the general readership. And since there’s really no give & take and/or goal of a mutual understanding, it’s just a lot more fun.
Really good chili, though…you should try it.
One can only be ripped off by a company if one buys their products. Is the chili fartless justdave? If so, I'll go get some.
1. Everything always works out for the best in the free market.
M, that's a rather strange thing to say when talking about Fanny & Freddie. You do realize they were CREATED by the federal gubmint. You can blame a lot of things on the free market, but not the failure of govt creations.
Damnit Juris, you should know better than to post facts that don't allow them to only give (and believe) half the story. I can't respond to those points either Dave as it is left wing language manipulation of the conservative ideology. I was reading an article in "the Economist" that indicates Britian is in just as bad a shape as us or worse when it comes to the housing bubble, credit problems and energy costs (all that under the far left labour party Mark). I also read an article from the Washington Post that said over the last 10 years, Britian and Spains housing markets appreciated 140 percent and now they are crashing down. I'd get into the "risk assesment" stuff that is happening over there due to an out of control tort system and I'd post links but I need to keep this as close to 1 line as possible. Yay for chili.
Juris, yes I realize that they were. Could you explain to me how the government then caused the problems we are having now?
The core of the problem here is that conservatives think that there is less corruption in the free market than there is in government. The reason why we are having the problems now is that most corporations in our country know that under a conservative administration, they can get away with pretty much whatever they want.
That's not to say I want total government control either. Hyper sensitive to the point of nausea, your average conservative thinks this is what your average liberal wants. Far from it....we need a balance. We have not had it in a while.
Could you explain to me how the government then caused the problems we are having now?
Sure. First, these two corporations (which they technically are) were created by the govt to act as a 'clearing house' for mortgage=based securities. They were backed by the "full faith and credit" of the U.S. govt. Right there is problem one - the taxpayers assumed all the risk normally assigned to stockholders/investors.
Second, HUD encouraged much of the lending designed to help people (that wouldn't otherwise qualify) become home-owners - mortgages that now are the heart of the portfolios retained by F&F and causing most (if not all) of the problem.
Third, Congress (on a bipartisan basis) refused to reform F&F even though both the Clinton and Bush admins thought it necessary.
there is less corruption in the free market than there is in government.
I wouldn't say there is less corruption, but there is less imcompetence. The market is pretty brutal to incompetence, the govt is not.
So, let me see if have this straight...the reason for all the problems we are having now is because of....affirmative action?
And the fact that all they lying went on, at places like Bear Stearns, that was the government's fault as well?
It couldn't possibly be that people were greedy and saw a chance to get away with a ton of cash while the government was asleep, right?
There you go using the words "conservatives think". Just like your claim that justdave doesn't get to decide who is a Christian and who is patriotic and who isn't, you don't get to decide "what conservatives think"...and your interpretation is way off as usual on this current claim.
You read Juris' latest post and thought of affirmative action? Where the hell did anyone mention skin color? ...or did you see the words "people that wouldn't otherwise qualify to become homeowners" and automatically think of black people? Wow, if I did that I'd probably be accused of racism so fast it would make your head spin and I'd be even more racist than I already am. The fact is that there are lenders who gave loans out to anyone who wanted them (most of those lenders are out of business and most of those loans no longer exist Mark). Then you have people borrowing 125% of their homes worth so they can have that SUV and every electronic gadget known to man, people who didn't do their homework enough to realize that the "A" in ARM stands for Adjustable, people who misrepresented their income on loan applications, and people who feel the need to keep up with the Jones'. I can introduce you to a guy I knew growing up who hunted with my dad. 42 years ago he bought a house for $16,000 in the quad cities. He had a good job at John Deere, where my dad worked.
The house still isn't paid off.
Nobody ever said everything works out for the best in the free market. 75% of businesses fail within the first few years. Yes there are crooks, yes people lose their job, and so on. Nobody has ever denied that and for you to claim that means you are making things up.
Barack is telling people to try harder these days and I like his language on the subject of responsibility. There will always be people who are struggling and I don't think you are naive enough to think that any one politician can eliminate struggling.
Corporations act in the best interests of their shareholders...that is business 101 and if they don't take care of their employees and/or their customers the majority of those businesses won't be around long. A real conservative wouldn't bail any company out. If GWB and co. bail someone out that is on them but it isn't conservative Mark. You don't get to decide what is conservative.
Sure there is corruption in the free market...nobody here has ever claimed otherwise that I can remember. Speaking for myself, big government does invite corruption and fraud and true conservatives are committed to reducing the size of government. We understand that not all of our ideas will work via action by the government but we do believe that a large government isn't a very good idea. There seems be a tension, though, between conservatism and "future-proposing" in the sense of some of GWB's actions. Conservatism isn't really about promising outcomes, so much as promoting freedom. Outcome-based Republicanism ("No Child Left Behind" for example) will be problematic for many real conservatives. GWB is not very conservative and hasn't governed like a conservative Mark, something you've been told before.
Adding to what Juris said, The heart of the problem of government and not so much privatization is accountability (how many columns have you written trying to hold our government accountable for something Mark? The list is pretty long). Plenty of private companies fail and here's the key - we know who is to blame when a private company is failing. The free market itself isn't the problem, the crooks are the ones you are focusing on and they are not the majority. On the flip side, an even bigger problem, to me anyway, is the near impossibility of holding government accountable (something you of all people whould be familiar with). You all have probably read about Efraim Diveroli, a 22 year old small times arms dealer who was able to secure a $300 million defense contract from our government. Who is worse - Mr. Diveroli or the government employee who awarded him the contract? That employee would be fired immediately in the free market. Does anyone know who in government awarded Mr. Diveroli the contract and how we can hold that employee accountable? A massive fuckup like that would not be tolerated in private business.
It just seems like when things go bad in government, you are convinced that the problem is just that the right people aren't in charge of the government. But when things go bad in the free market, that is a colossal failure of mammoth proportions of the conservative ideology and capitalism in general. Greed is not confined to the free market - anyone who has worked at a company who deals witht he government (as I have) can see how government agencies spend money at the end of their fiscal year. They waste money like crazy so their budget doesn't get cut the next year. Why would they do otherwise?
Goddammit, you sucked me in again. Just when I think you've got at least half a brain, you respond thusly.
the reason for all the problems we are having now is because of....affirmative action?
You just can't follow three logical, non-ideological points, can you? Why don't you go play in the shit and pretend it doesn't stink - because it all came from 'the right people'. That really does seem to work for you, though I find that utterly pathetic.
And WHO is bailing out Bear Stearns due to their incompetence (or even their corruption) - not the market, the govt is. Maybe, just maybe, you can understand this point M - if you give an A or B to work that merits a D or an F, what do you expect a student to learn from that?
What is utterly pathetic is that you can't admit that there are problems in this country that are NOT the fault of the government...although in this case you are right but not for the reasons you list.
The SEC has become so de-regulated over the years, starting with Reagan and continuing through Bush-Clinton-Bush, that criminals prosper in the free market. No one is going to stop them because they have paid off protectors in both parties. There is no oversight to discourage people from making a quick buck--the questionable loans you discussed--and lying to their stock holders (Bear Stearns). The current crop of conservatives are the absolute worst and Bush has run our government as poorly as he ran all of the failed businesses he fucked up in the past.
But please, I know you think my opinion is worthless, go ask a lender at a bank in your hometown. Ask ten. What are there opinions? When you start with the answer to the problem is the government, you really aren't looking at the big picture.
Or, in this case, what actually happened.
What is utterly pathetic is that you can't admit that there are problems in this country that are NOT the fault of the government
M, you asked for an explanation. If you don't want one, don't ask.
And why the FUCK are you bringing up Bear Stearns when we were TALKING about Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac? Are you really ADD or are you doing it because you think I'll fall for the change in subject? [Wrong!]
Must be time for a sabbatical from my wanderings amongst the heathens. I am much too quick to anger.
Anger is always welcome here. It's therapeutic.
I bring up Bear Stearns in relation to Fannie and Freddie because it's all part of the same problem: we have a free market that is not adhering to any rules. "Free" doesn't or shouldn't mean "rip off." There has to be some regulation...some sort of rule of law...in order to avoid problems like this. All of the deregulation of the last 28 years has caused this.
It's given a license to criminals to become as greedy as they would like to be and fuck as many people over as possible. Again, I must submit that we return to good capitalism. I don't want state control over everything either but there has to be some sort of basic regulation and oversight regarding what we have seen to be a very common story of late...World Com, Enron, Anderson, Bear...it's going to keep happening unless we put something in place.
And really, that's not going to happen until enough people lose money...which is usually the only incentive to change anything in this country.
I bring up Bear Stearns in relation to Fannie and Freddie because it's all part of the same problem
They aren't related at all. No wonder you had to ask - you haven't got a clue. And then you whine that I don't offer an explanation that fits with your prejudices. It's like trying to talk a racist out of his belief in white supremacy.
All of the deregulation of the last 28 years has caused this.
So, WHY did you ask me to explain? Just for fun? You already had an answer - a wrong one, a stupid one, but an answer that you BELIEVE in nonetheless.
...we return to good capitalism.
That is, a mythical state that existed some time prior to your birth. [At least that's the best definition I've ever been able to get out of you.]
Anger is always welcome here. It's therapeutic.
Not necessarily. But that you should think it is therapeutic, and therefore beneficial, speaks volumes.
So tell me M, what does a student learn when he turns in shoddy work and gets a good grade?
Well, he or she wouldn't get a good grade from me. Shoddy work deserves the grade it gets. I'm not sure where you are going with this but I'm sure it will be some sort of metaphor which places the blame squarely on the fault of big government and liberalism while completely ignoring the how conservative ideology is also to blame.
Since we are on this topic, check out this article from today's Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0718/p01s01-usec.html
From the article:
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac....The two corporations blend private management with a federally chartered role to help an often-volatile mortgage market function smoothly. Despite the word "federal" in their original titles, the government does not explicitly stand behind either one."
It's the private part that is part of the problem and it relates to Bear Stearns because it's all part of the mortgage crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_may#The_mortgage_crisis_from_late_2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Stearns#Subprime_mortgage_hedge_fund_crisis
I'm not sure where you are going with this but I'm sure it will be some sort of metaphor which places the blame squarely on the fault of big government and liberalism while completely ignoring the how conservative ideology is also to blame.
Pardon me, but FUCK YOU, and your prejudice that makes Archie Bunker look open minded.
Now, thank you for a perfect example of how you can't even think about something simple and straightforward without turning into a political polemic. And just for my personal amusement - you leapt to an incredibly wrong conclusion.
You may now return to playing in the shitpile.
Well, I touched a nerve so there must be some truth to what I am saying. I gave you my examples on how things relate. Look at them...don't look at them..it's really no skin off my back.
There are plenty of problems I have with liberals. I think I need to put up a post listing the reasons why I think they are wrong on certain issues. I'm glad we agree on the nuclear power and gun control thing. That's a start. I wonder where you agree with me on the faults of conservative ideology...
I wonder where you agree with me on the faults of conservative ideology...
Quite a few points I imagine - which is a big reason it pisses me off when you lump me in with them. Fact is, on civil liberties, I am much more liberal then the average liberal (who tends to want nanny-state govt) let alone conservatives. Though if people are going to be free, they need to be responsible for their own decisions; how liberals lost personal responsibility is a mystery to me. I tend to be economically conservative because for the most part the free market works. Govt often screws things up not because of bad intent, but because of unintended consequences. The Calif power "deregulation" (which it was NOT) disaster is a great case in point. And that was supported by Dems & Repubs, big business and consumer advocates; which should have been a clue - everyone thought they were getting what they wanted.
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