Contributors

Tuesday, July 26, 2011

Conservatives Don't Get America

Conservatives like Herman Cain, who wants to prevent mosques from being built in the United States, and the right-wing Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik, who murdered dozens of people last weekend, are afraid free and open societies like America and Norway will be invaded by Muslims who will institute Sharia law.

Conservatives just don't seem to get how America works and what makes it a great country. As immigrants come here the vast majority quickly comes to appreciate the freedom to live their lives as they choose. Sure, some first-generation sticks in the mud will never change, and there will always be some fruitcakes who want to revert to the Middle Ages.

But over time the children -- and especially the daughters -- of even the most conservative Muslims will become disillusioned with the oppression of women, the crazy dress codes, the hatred, and they'll join the American mainstream. They'll see the lives that the rest of us live and they'll want that too. Unless, of course, we treat them like animals, and make them feel hated and hunted.

Furthermore, all Islamic sects are not the same -- the Sunni and Shia sects are constantly battling it out. But more importantly, Turkish Islam is very different from Saudi Islam. The majority of Turks are Muslims, but the government is secular and Sharia is not the law of the land. American Islam will be more like Turkey's than Pakistan's.

For generations people like Cain have worried about the influence of new minorities. The same sentiments were held against former slaves, Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Poles, Chinese, Japanese, Hispanics and on and on. And religion has always been touchy -- Jews certainly understand this, and as recently as 1960 people seriously questioned whether a Catholic could be president and hold the United States' interests above those of the Vatican.

But over time those minority ethnicities and religions have been stirred into the melting pot of America. Their children have ultimately become full-fledged Americans, learned English and forgotten their parents' native tongues. And at the same time they've brought new things that the rest of us have come to accept as normal: pizza, Kung Pao chicken, sushi, reggae, hip-hop, jazz, and on and on.

The United States is a liberal democracy, something that even conservatives like George Bush and Dick Cheney think is a good thing -- they invaded Iraq to create a liberal democracy in the Middle East. Why? History tells us that conservative regimes are ultimately controlling and repressive. They don't tolerate differences and change, and as they gain more and more power anyone who strays from the prescribed orthodoxy is harshly punished. These escalate into internecine conflicts that cause society to splinter and disintegrate.

Freedom and tolerance of differences are the strengths of our society. Yes, these freedoms pose some risks. There will be a few bad Muslim apples who kill their fellow Americans, just as there have been bad Christian apples like Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph who killed and maimed hundreds of their fellow citizens.

But conservatives should understand and accept those risks. They're the ones who believe everyone should own a gun, and if a few innocent bystanders get killed when someone is exercising their second amendment rights, well that's the price of freedom.

Why does Herman Cain put more stock in the second amendment than the first? The first amendment says:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.*
Herman Cain wants to prevent Muslims from peaceably assembling for the purposes of religious worship. Does Cain have so little faith in the strength of our way of life and our Constitution that he has to trash it in order to protect it? Does he really believe that there could ever be enough Muslims in this country to totally overwhelm the rest of us, enough to amend the Constitution and establish Sharia law, or to overthrow our government by force of arms? Or is he just parroting Republican talking points to cynically exploit the fear people feel after 20 years of terrorism at the hands of Al Qaeda?

Anders Breivik's fears over immigration and multiculturalism are almost understandable. He comes from an ethnically homogeneous country where for centuries almost everyone belonged to the same church. There's no history of immigration and the melting pot in Norway. But Herman Cain should know better than this, being a black man whose ancestors may well have been enslaved by his fellow men.

Yet Cain is tuned to the same crazy radio station that broadcasts intolerance and hate that Breivik is. The difference is that Cain has the volume turned up half way, whereas Breivik has it all the way up to 11.


*And weaseling out of the first amendment by saying it's okay for the states to deny those rights is wrong on legal, practical, moral and ethical reasons, and is the height of hypocrisy.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

How many Muslims and immigrants were killed in Norway over the weekend?

Anonymous said...

I haven't finished the first paragraph yet, but are you going to continue your line of thought comparing conservatives to terrorists?

This is so exciting!

I can't wait to find out how it ends!

Anonymous said...

Well, it was better than the D good, R bad! stories you usually write, but I wouldn't quit your day job.

Anonymous said...

Herman Cain wants to prevent Muslims from peaceably assembling for the purposes of religious worship. Does Cain have so little faith in the strength of our way of life and our Constitution that he has to trash it in order to protect it?

Aye, there's the heart of the matter.

If the Muslims get their way and replace the Constitution with Sharia Law*, how has the Constitution been protected?

The conflict caused by Islam boils down to this: Do we violate the First Amendment and suppress Islam? Or do we uphold the First Amendment and by so doing, allow Islam to replace the Constitution?

Islam is incompatible with the Constitution as a whole, therefore, IMNSHO, it does not qualify for First Amendment protections.

*Evidence:

http://bit.ly/rfAB1Z (be sure to watch the video)

http://bit.ly/qlrD57

http://bit.ly/q5ycuc

Anonymous said...

This is the video I was looking for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJy9tpGHGXM

In their own words…

Larry said...

So in effect, Nikto, you're arguing that the vast majority of faithful Muslims will learn to embrace American life and abjure their religious ideals -- as you also constantly argue that American conservatives never have. Curious, that.

You might want to update your info on Turkish Islam. They're heading quickly towards Sharia law and the only thing that has stopped the Islamicists since Kemal stomped them, the army, (which has staged a number of coups when the elected government strayed too far), has been effectively neutered by arrests of many leading secular officers. It's not a done deal yet, but it's dismaying how far it's gone.

N: There will be a few bad Muslim apples who kill their fellow Americans, just as there have been bad Christian apples like Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph who killed and maimed hundreds of their fellow citizens.

Somehow I don't recall millions of Christians rejoicing at the OKC bombing. Maybe you have some secret knowledge that I don't. Would you care to point it out? Some supported Rudolph's anti-abortion crimes, but I certainly don't recall any church leaders praising him and calling on their flock to emulate him. But the Muslim is a bit -- different. Surely you are aware of that?

N: They're the ones who believe everyone should own a gun, and if a few innocent bystanders get killed when someone is exercising their second amendment rights, well that's the price of freedom.

Bullshit, Nikto. Absolute unadorned bullshit. You're just pulling shit out of your ass on this one, the way you always do on the subject of guns. There's no right to murder anybody in the 2nd Amendment and no conservative has ever argued that. If you think they have, please post a link. And your fever-dreams aren't evidence.

And Cain is wrong. But you're still a loon.

Mark Ward said...

that the vast majority of faithful Muslims will learn to embrace American life and abjure their religious ideals

They already have. I see it my community and schools. It's not our intolerance or chest thumping that will bring about a "victory" as many conservatives think it will. It's our soft power. I have a post coming about this more towards the beginning of the school year but if you spend any serious amount of time with Muslims, I think you will find that they want the same things that generations of immigrants wanted before them: a place to safely raise their families and make money.

The majority don't want to institute Sharia law or any other such nonsense. They want iPods, nice cars, and air conditioning. In other words, our soft economic power. We "win" because of our free market economy. That's why groups like Al Qaeda are attacking us. They know that the lure of capitalism is too intoxicating to most people.

If the right in this country were a little more tolerant, they could see that a non violent victory is in the cards. Sadly, they don't and continue with much of the same extremism we see from hirabis.

They're heading quickly towards Sharia law

It's never going to happen. There's to much money to be made in the free market. The leaders of Turkey know this. Let's leave the Crusades in the past, shall we?

Anonymous said...

It's never going to happen. There's to much money to be made in the free market. The leaders of Turkey know this. Let's leave the Crusades in the past, shall we?

Sticking your head in the sand tends to lead to sudden, "unexpected" pains in the posterior.

Oh, and thanks for the irony. I needed a little more in my diet today. (What were the Crusades a response to?)

Larry said...

Actually, Mark, I know the majority of Muslims will acculturate. You're not the only one with daily contact with "good" American Muslims. However, only a fool would deny the strong counter-reaction and outright revulsion and hatred that the very fact of acculturation by many Muslims will provoke in others. And the mass is somewhat disarmed because all accepted interpretations of their holy books lead inescapably towards the radicals being closest to the Prophet's teachings.

Your prediction about Turkey sounds like it will be about as accurate as CIA and State Dept. forecasts for Iran's modernization. I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure.

And I have no idea where your Crusades comment comes from. In any case, the Crusades were a reaction to .. what? Anyone? Buehler? Buehler?

Anonymous said...

So in essence, Nikto's and Mark's problem with Cain (and expanding the assumption to include all conservatives in general) is... that they're too reminiscent of Markadelphia himself claiming that if McCain was elected, Sarah Palin would institute a Christian religious theocracy.

...or the liberal atheist group suing Rick Perry for daring to be openly Christian and asking people to pray while holding elective office.

How... tolerant of you.

Larry said...

And, of course, I was contrasting Nikto's boundless confidence in immigrant Muslims becoming "good" Americans when in endless rants he denies that American conservatives have ever reached that point. That is just a very odd manner of thinking to me.

Juris Imprudent said...

Well said Larry. You left me nothing else to say but that.

Anonymous said...

…all accepted interpretations of their holy books lead inescapably towards the radicals being closest to the Prophet's teachings.

Not to mention the example set by Mohammad's actions.

Well said Larry. You left me nothing else to say but that.

Ditto.

rld said...

Heres one of the dem leaders on raising the debt ceiling -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELkbDdPeL7I

All politics.

Anonymous said...

-- the Sunni and Shia sects are constantly battling it out.

Except when they aren't.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/07/us-accuses-iran-of-secret-deal-with-al-qaeda-to-send-money-fighters-to-afghanistan-pakistan.html