Contributors

Monday, July 02, 2012

The Largely Ignored Victory

Any loss for the juveniles on the right is always more devastating given their tendencies towards wild emotional swings (see: junior high). That's why I'm still surprised to see very few celebrating the glaringly obvious victory that has come out of the Supreme Court's ruling on the health care bill. For the first time since the New Deal, the Commerce Clause has been defined in such a way that libertarians have declared victory.

“Under the government’s theory, Congress could address the diet problem by ordering everyone to buy vegetables,” the chief justice wrote. “That is not the country the framers of our Constitution envisioned.”

“We finally won a three-decades-long battle over the commerce clause,” John Eastman, a conservative constitutional scholar and a professor at Chapman University, told me hours after the court’s decision. 

This might seem a paradox, given that the court upheld the legislation. But the decision may ultimately prove a Pyrrhic victory for supporters of expansive Congressional power. The opinion reads like a hymn to the ideal of limited government. And by embracing the broccoli argument, it sharply limits the commerce clause — until now the source of ever-expanding legislative power since Chief Justice John Marshall wrote in 1824 that Congressional power to regulate commerce “may be exercised to its utmost extent.”

“The commerce clause is not a general license to regulate an individual from cradle to grave,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote. Libertarians and conservatives have been seeking such a declaration since the New Deal.

You'd think they be happy but no...oh no...Obama won something so it's the end of the world for the 89th time. It's a good thing they don't value "winning the argument" above all else.

18 comments:

GuardDuck said...

Yeah, it's so much better that the government can't order me to eat broccoli but they can tax me for not eating it.. .....

juris imprudent said...

All of the material that the Times thinks should make conservatives and libertarians happy is dicta - it isn't the binding part of the decision.

I'll be happy when Raich and Wickard are over-turned. Then we will really be back to the Commerce Clause as intended.

If you want the federal govt to have essentially unlimited power to address any problem, then you should be advocating for a Constitutional amendment granting the general police power to the Feds. I would argue against it - but at least you would be making an honest and intelligent argument.

Mark Ward said...

GD, this is the exact reason why it will always crack me that you guys think that liberals are the ones who are all about feelings. No one is going to tax you for not eating broccoli. Seriously, you are acting like an hysterical old lady.

Roberts mentions several times in the tax section of the brief that the federal government does have limited power on taxation. More obviously, it will never come to that with the balance of power we have in Congress. So, please, chuck the histrionics and chill the fuck out.

Larry said...

M: "Trust us. Just this once it'll be this and no more."

Perhaps not broccoli, but how about obesity being taxed? After all, it's in the nations best interest. It's a dire medical issue. How many dollars per pound overweight will be enough? How about a non-exercise tax? Once the camel's nose is in the tent, it's going to take a huge effort to keep the rest of it out.

Trusting you and your kind on this is like trusting a girl trusting a guy who says he'll pull out in time. Riight...

Larry said...

Well, that got garbled. Delete the first "trusting". I hate touchpads with a passion.

juris imprudent said...

Given that this has been settled as a tax, I predict the challenge will come (after the first year of collection) on the grounds that it is an improper direct tax. Assuming of course that Republicans don't win complete control of the govt and repeal (which isn't likely).

Poor M, won't understand why the kind of tax it is matters, and no doubt will argue that it doesn't.

I wonder if this was at play in Roberts mind?

GuardDuck said...

Hey Mark, Fuck you. You used the link that had the broccoli example. You did dickhead. Stop the histrionics yourself asshole.


Nobody is going to tax me for not eating broccoli?

Is nobody going to tax me for not buying insurance??????


No. I am getting taxed for doing nothing other than existing. That you are not outraged over that is staggering. That you can believe that is an OK idea is incredible.


Ten years ago if you had told someone that 'nobody is going to tax you for not getting health insurance' I would have agreed that they were a little bit paranoid.

Now I can't think that. Not only can they, but people like you are all for it.

Keep pushing progressive scum, keep pushing.

6Kings said...

This is next?
Volt Requirement

Mark Ward said...

Well, that got garbled. Delete the first "trusting". I hate touchpads with a passion.

Don't sweat it, Larry. It was much more coherent than my comments that are riddled with typos:)

Sadly, though, your comment betrays your ridiculously sensitivity to government. "Trusting my kind?" Larry, Democrats don't really give a shit what you do. Has your life really gotten that much worse in the last four years? What freedoms have been taken away?

It's a lot of talk about what is coming but it never really materializes, does it?

Mark Ward said...

Nobody is going to tax me for not eating broccoli?

No, they aren't. Roberts' brief is very clear on the limits on taxation. Have you read the whole thing yet? And it won't even come to that because a law like that would never pass in Congress.

Honestly, you need to chill out on the paranoia about government. Time spent managing the fantasies of the right could be spent much more productively doing something else. The Democrats aren't comin' to gin ya!

juris imprudent said...

Roberts' brief is very clear on the limits on taxation.

Actually I have since found out that the taxation ruling was incredibly broad - basically that a direct tax is okay; not quite sure how that can be justified given the Constitutional prohibition on those (that was only relaxed for the direct taxation of income). But I did say it was possible that the Court would get creative. What he foreclosed on was the Commerce Clause extension.

And it won't even come to that because a law like that would never pass in Congress.

I would enjoy watching you eat those words, particularly if it is the Republicans passing some bile-inducing regulation - except that my face will miss my nose.

GuardDuck said...

Honestly, you need to chill out on the paranoia about government.

You're right, I must be totally paranoid to think that the government would ever levy a tax on my mere existence.

Larry said...

M: Larry, Democrats don't really give a shit what you do.

WTF? What's that even mean in the context of this discussion? Does that mean I'm now exempt from this fucked up abortion of a law?

6Kings said...

M: Larry, Democrats don't really give a shit what you do.

Hmm...really?

1. New York Mayor proposes ban on sugary drinks
2. Proposed Tax on sweets and snacks - Democrap
3. Proposed tax on Sale and rental of Video games
4. Santa Claus bans in Missisppi Head Start
5. fines if "temporarily remove both hands from the full grip of the wheel in MI
6. Sued for growing vegetables in their yard
7. Banning goldfish.
8. Banning happy meals.
9. Banning yellow pages
10. Banning circumcisions.
11. Banning toy giveaways in kid meals.
12. Banning sale of all soft drinks on city property - San Fran.
Banning all pet sales. (no more kittens or puppies ...)

The list is frickin' exhaustive and there are parodies everywhere about the nanny state intrusiveness. Almost all of them are proposed by Democrats. Maybe you ought to get your head out of the democratic underground once and a while and actually read real news.

Mark Ward said...

Does that mean I'm now exempt from this fucked up abortion of a law?

Do you have health insurance?

Mark Ward said...

First of all, Mayor Bloomberg is not a Democrat.

Second,

Maybe you ought to get your head out of the democratic underground once and a while and actually read real news.

Maybe you ought to be more honest about your list. How many of these are federal laws? We are talking about the federal government, not local governments. The last time I checked, state and local governments have the right to pass a law that says that unicorns exist and should be cared for out of government money. This can be done without interference from people like you who do not live in said state or city...unless, you are changing your mind about states' rights, of course:)

Your list is a fine example of the specific type of paranoia of which I speak. A law passed in San Francisco means that it will suddenly be passed everywhere with federal agents taking away our children's happy meals. Maybe YOU ought realize that you are not being rational and are, in fact, behaving like an adolescent, complete with all the emotional swings.

Larry said...

No, Mark, am I exempt from this fucked up abortion of a law? Whether or not I currently have health insurance is beside the point because this law will change a great deal about what kind of insurance I can get and what I will have to pay for it. Hint: requiring coverage for all kinds of shit I don't want is going to raise my costs. Effectively preventing young people from buying catastrophic-only coverage greatly increases costs of insurance. Companies are definitely reviewing their options, and you shouldn't be surprised when some companies who are already under financial stress decide that it will be cheaper to drop all coverage and pay the fine.

Thanks to this, my wife and I will already be losing 1/2 of our Flex account next year which will hurt us. Will we be exempted from that?

6Kings said...

My point was that this info completely refutes your point about democraps. I didn't claim anything else. You read into it...again.

And again, you hold to ideas that aren't true. It must be the only way to rationalize your positions.