Everyone sounds so nice during these prepared speeches… Anyway, back to the issues areas of his website.
Barak Obama’s, ‘Plan to End the Iraq War’
OK, I was wrong. I thought there would be something revolutionary in his analysis here.
“The war was wrong at its conception…” Fine... That’s his opinion. I disagree. The President laid out 7 or 8 reasons for the war, only one of which has proved to be less accurate than originally outlined (WMDs). There were more justifiable reasons to go into the Middle East than into, say, Somalia and Bosnia. (I supported both those ventures, btw.) What made them worth it, but not Iraq? Because they were more purely humanitarian as opposed to a combination of humanitarian and national interests? People love to say Iraq’s in a civil war. Fine, maybe it is. So were Bosnia and Somalia and we didn’t exactly stand on the sidelines there.
He’s worried we’ll be there a long time... As opposed to being in Germany, Korea, Japan, Okinawa, etc for a long time? If we’re going to be anywhere for a long time, how about someplace that we’ll make a difference? How about somewhere we’re wanted and needed?
His other points…
1) Reduction in troops Bad idea. Stop micromanaging the generals. 2) Time frame to withdraw Very bad idea. The terrorists’ simply table any plans until this magic date arrives and then hit the Iraqi gov’t hard the day after we’re gone…and the gov’t crumbles. 3) Iraqi gov’t progress You heard it here first folks. I agree. Yes, I agree. If we’re going to give Iraq a new lease on life, they dang well better step up, show their mettle and get it done. 4) Reconstruction Umm, isn’t that what we’re doing? If the evening news would get off death tolls and blasting the President, you might be able to hear some wonderful success stories. 5) Engage the international community & neighbors Blah. I hear this daily & I dismiss it. There are only a couple of friendlies over there to begin with and we prefer Israel to do our dirty work behind the scenes rather than working hand-in-hand. The international community is changing too. France’s new leader’s first speech expressed his hopes to mend ties. That must be a hard pill for the left to swallow.
Here’s a really interesting bit… He introduced legislation as an alternative to President Bush’s “failed” escalation policy. Failed? When did he introduce this legislation? January ’07. You see, this just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s May and the “surge” is just now taking off, so if he introduced this in January, he’s either clairvoyant or he’s joined with Harry Reid in declaring defeat before the battle is over, ala Harry Reid. Unprecedented.
To answer a question about experience… You’d cut at Bush’s supposed lack of experience. If you look at where most presidents come from, you’ll see that many will come from governorships (Bush, Clinton, and Reagan) which leads to far greater experience than a senator due to the sheer scope of duties of the executive branch.
This guy will not win. The more I learn, the more he doesn’t have the intellectual firepower to fence with world leaders. He certainly has a dashing presence, but it’s not a strong presence in leadership terms (in my opinion). It’s more eye candy for the ladies than the type that will command respect from world leaders. And, it’s only superficial, because he doesn’t have the charm/charisma of a Bill Clinton to go with it. I think you can get away with a lack of experience if you have that leadership aura; that charm & charisma about you that people will follow. He’s more of a movie star than a leader.
1. Our troops should not only be reduced but retrained into more elite strike forces capable of hitting radicals in places other than Iraq. The National Intelligence Estimate places Al Qaeda at around 4 percent of the violence in Iraq...much higer elsewhere.
2. Can you say, with a certainty, that this will happen? Based on the fact that most of the violence in Iraq is sectarian, wouldn't the more likely scenario be that the Shites slaughter all of the Sunni, of which Al Qaeda is allied with? Wouldn't this new found Shi'a majority purge the country of Al Qaeda and ally itself with Iran?
3. Agreed. And no two month vacations either.
4. Inspectors for the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction have found that in a sampling of eight projects that the United States had declared successes, seven were no longer operating as designed because of plumbing and electrical failures, lack of proper maintenance, apparent looting and expensive equipment that lay idle. The inspections ranged geographically from northern to southern Iraq and covered projects as varied as a maternity hospital, barracks for an Iraqi special forces unit and a power station for Baghdad International Airport.
At the airport, crucially important for the functioning of the country, inspectors found that while $11.8 million had been spent on new electrical generators, $8.6 million worth were no longer functioning.
At the maternity hospital, a rehabilitation project in the northern city of Erbil, an expensive incinerator for medical waste was padlocked -- Iraqis at the hospital could not find the key when inspectors asked to see the equipment -- and partly as a result, medical waste including syringes, used bandages and empty drug vials were clogging the sewage system and probably contaminating the water system.
The newly built water purification system was not functioning either.
Officials at the oversight agency said they had made an effort to sample different regions and various types of projects, but that they were constrained from taking a true random sample in part because many projects were in areas too unsafe to visit. This is from a report dated April 28, 2007.
5. I would rather sit down and deal with people like Iran and Syria...two countries that actually have populations that are US friendly...than pay Pakistan, who's population hates us, 1 billion dollars a year to not find Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahari.
As for your other stuff about Obama, check out my post tomorrow.
I didn't say that he does. I can’t even listen to his speeches I have to read the text; he’s so bad at it. He is pretty quick witted when in less formal speeking situations. I think that's where his intellect come through. However, GW has some of the other leadership qualities. He has that 'Texas swagger' that naturally draws people to him. There was a poll during the last election on who you’d want at your backyard BBQ and GW won hands down over Kerry. He’s just more likable on a personal level. His approach… Look at when he originally took office, even Democrats were marveling at how he ran a much tighter ship than Bill Clinton in that it was a more business oriented approach. For example, they said, if you had a 10am meeting Clinton scheduled for an hour, he's show up whenever and talk your ear off for 2 hours. GW was there at 10, expected you to be there at 10, listened attentively to the experts, because they were the experts (not him), made decisions based on that combined w/ his own plans and moved on. He also has that Texas charm, which I know so many of you hate, but just as many others love. He also has the ‘caring’ aspect about him. Not like Clinton who’d go to a funeral and keep looking up to see when the cameras were on him. But honest caring for people in need. When some tragedy hit lately (I forget which), he took a walk w/ a group of youngsters and made the secret service and reports stay away. He wasn’t looking to “appear” caring, he simply was.
Wow. I don't really know what to say to this. Bush is caring? I don't see it at all. Of course you will say it is my bias but I think the facts bear out that he has been most uncaring (Iraqi innocents, Katrina, 9-11 rescue workers). He always seems to act with corporate interest first and national interest second.
I also think part of being considerate and charming is being able to listen to people. President Bush pretty much does what he wants regardless of what other people think or how potentially dangerous it is.
Hey Dave, I am having trouble getting some text from this article that I wanted to post about today so it will have to wait until next week. This was in regards to Obama and foreign policy.
Well, I don't know what tell you Mr. Blue. I gave you 2 concrete examples of both listening and caring and a contrasting example of Bill Clinton’s lack of sincerity; you simply choose not to see them. Its fine that you see things from your own perspective, but if the last election is any clue, roughly 50% of the population sees him this way as well, so it shouldn’t be so shocking to you.
Katrina? Oh, that’s right. That’s why I replaced 911 on my phone w/ a speed dial to the White House; they’re there to take care of my every need. (Oops, was that too sarcastic???)
Yes, it's true. It's hard for me to see Bush's caring moments (I don't doubt that he has them) when he has acted in such an amoral fashion in other areas. To give you an idea how I see things, it would be like saying Hugo Chavez or Mahamoud Achmenigad are OK guys because once a month they give candy away to kids. Then they spend the rest of the month arresting, torturing, and killing people for political and financial gain. Yep, what a great couple a' joes!
Chavez. Ahmadinejad. Bush. All in the same sentence… All referenced to arresting, torturing and killing for political and financial gain. I have no doubt that you see it that way. Mores the pity. I only regret that it took this many posts, this much wasted time to learn the sad truth.
It’s getting late on a holiday commemorating the veterans who gave the ultimate sacrifice to save you from the very type of governments to which you compare our own leader. And I have no further time for the likes of you.
Do both of you believe in serendipity? I was at a party last week in which I got into a fight with a bunch of liberal friends of mine on this very topic. Yes, it's true, Dave, it happens all the time.
The fight began when my friends told me about how great Hugo Chavez was for the world. I looked them in the eye and laughed my ass off. They all looked at me stunned as if I kicked them in the gut. I then proceeded to explain to them that the very things they were ripping Bush for, just a few minutes before they started lavishing Chavez with praise, were the exact thing that Chavez and folks were up to. They didn't see it.
A couple of days later, I was hanging out with a buddy of mine from the gym who is very conservative. We saw Danny Glover on TV cozying up to Chavez and both of us remarked that he was a moroon. I then gave my pal the same line as I gave the liberals at the party I was at and then HE proceeded to say much of the same thing that Dave has said above. I guess I can never win and no one likes me :)
My point is this: all world leaders are inherently corrupt and seek to gain as much power as they can through accumulation of wealth. Whether it's a Communist or a Capitialist....in the end it's all about money. Call me cynical but I think that is what true blue was trying to get at...if I can put words in his/her mouth.
You all don’t have much faith in our leaders. Is it such a stretch of the imagination to believe that the gov’t simply made a mistake w/ these chaps? I don’t think I’ve been quoted as calling the gov’t faultless or perfect. Khaled El-Masri was apprehended because he appeared to have a bogus passport and his name just happened to be the same as a wanted terrorist. Donald Vance was also caught in an unfortunate, although quite plausible, misunderstanding due to his unusual circumstances. I know liberals are big on defendants’ rights, but do you really believe that in a time of war, the military is going to let somebody go simply because they’re presented with the unique situation of a couple of guys saying “they didn’t do it”?
Interrogation isn’t nice, but someone’s not playing w/ a full deck if they’re trying to equate our tactics verse that of Iran. …and I don’t debate people who argue the moon is made of Swiss cheese.
BTW…What ever happened to those lawsuits? Surely something of such merit went to fruition?
16 comments:
Simply wonderful. I just read that Time magazine listed Obama as one of 10 people who could change the world.
Let's make it happen!
Everyone sounds so nice during these prepared speeches… Anyway, back to the issues areas of his website.
Barak Obama’s, ‘Plan to End the Iraq War’
OK, I was wrong. I thought there would be something revolutionary in his analysis here.
“The war was wrong at its conception…” Fine... That’s his opinion. I disagree. The President laid out 7 or 8 reasons for the war, only one of which has proved to be less accurate than originally outlined (WMDs). There were more justifiable reasons to go into the Middle East than into, say, Somalia and Bosnia. (I supported both those ventures, btw.) What made them worth it, but not Iraq? Because they were more purely humanitarian as opposed to a combination of humanitarian and national interests? People love to say Iraq’s in a civil war. Fine, maybe it is. So were Bosnia and Somalia and we didn’t exactly stand on the sidelines there.
He’s worried we’ll be there a long time... As opposed to being in Germany, Korea, Japan, Okinawa, etc for a long time? If we’re going to be anywhere for a long time, how about someplace that we’ll make a difference? How about somewhere we’re wanted and needed?
His other points…
1) Reduction in troops
Bad idea. Stop micromanaging the generals.
2) Time frame to withdraw
Very bad idea. The terrorists’ simply table any plans until this magic date arrives and then hit the Iraqi gov’t hard the day after we’re gone…and the gov’t crumbles.
3) Iraqi gov’t progress
You heard it here first folks. I agree. Yes, I agree. If we’re going to give Iraq a new lease on life, they dang well better step up, show their mettle and get it done.
4) Reconstruction
Umm, isn’t that what we’re doing? If the evening news would get off death tolls and blasting the President, you might be able to hear some wonderful success stories.
5) Engage the international community & neighbors
Blah. I hear this daily & I dismiss it. There are only a couple of friendlies over there to begin with and we prefer Israel to do our dirty work behind the scenes rather than working hand-in-hand. The international community is changing too. France’s new leader’s first speech expressed his hopes to mend ties. That must be a hard pill for the left to swallow.
Here’s a really interesting bit… He introduced legislation as an alternative to President Bush’s “failed” escalation policy. Failed? When did he introduce this legislation? January ’07. You see, this just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s May and the “surge” is just now taking off, so if he introduced this in January, he’s either clairvoyant or he’s joined with Harry Reid in declaring defeat before the battle is over, ala Harry Reid. Unprecedented.
To answer a question about experience… You’d cut at Bush’s supposed lack of experience. If you look at where most presidents come from, you’ll see that many will come from governorships (Bush, Clinton, and Reagan) which leads to far greater experience than a senator due to the sheer scope of duties of the executive branch.
This guy will not win. The more I learn, the more he doesn’t have the intellectual firepower to fence with world leaders. He certainly has a dashing presence, but it’s not a strong presence in leadership terms (in my opinion). It’s more eye candy for the ladies than the type that will command respect from world leaders. And, it’s only superficial, because he doesn’t have the charm/charisma of a Bill Clinton to go with it. I think you can get away with a lack of experience if you have that leadership aura; that charm & charisma about you that people will follow. He’s more of a movie star than a leader.
Dave,
1. Our troops should not only be reduced but retrained into more elite strike forces capable of hitting radicals in places other than Iraq. The National Intelligence Estimate places Al Qaeda at around 4 percent of the violence in Iraq...much higer elsewhere.
2. Can you say, with a certainty, that this will happen? Based on the fact that most of the violence in Iraq is sectarian, wouldn't the more likely scenario be that the Shites slaughter all of the Sunni, of which Al Qaeda is allied with? Wouldn't this new found Shi'a majority purge the country of Al Qaeda and ally itself with Iran?
3. Agreed. And no two month vacations either.
4. Inspectors for the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction have found that in a sampling of eight projects that the United States had declared successes, seven were no longer operating as designed because of plumbing and electrical failures, lack of proper maintenance, apparent looting and expensive equipment that lay idle. The inspections ranged geographically from northern to southern Iraq and covered projects as varied as a maternity hospital, barracks for an Iraqi special forces unit and a power station for Baghdad International Airport.
At the airport, crucially important for the functioning of the country, inspectors found that while $11.8 million had been spent on new electrical generators, $8.6 million worth were no longer functioning.
At the maternity hospital, a rehabilitation project in the northern city of Erbil, an expensive incinerator for medical waste was padlocked -- Iraqis at the hospital could not find the key when inspectors asked to see the equipment -- and partly as a result, medical waste including syringes, used bandages and empty drug vials were clogging the sewage system and probably contaminating the water system.
The newly built water purification system was not functioning either.
Officials at the oversight agency said they had made an effort to sample different regions and various types of projects, but that they were constrained from taking a true random sample in part because many projects were in areas too unsafe to visit. This is from a report dated April 28, 2007.
5. I would rather sit down and deal with people like Iran and Syria...two countries that actually have populations that are US friendly...than pay Pakistan, who's population hates us, 1 billion dollars a year to not find Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahari.
As for your other stuff about Obama, check out my post tomorrow.
Dave-Waitaminute....Obama doesn't have the intellectual firepower to fence with world leaders? Uh, do you think George Bush does?
I didn't say that he does. I can’t even listen to his speeches I have to read the text; he’s so bad at it. He is pretty quick witted when in less formal speeking situations. I think that's where his intellect come through. However, GW has some of the other leadership qualities. He has that 'Texas swagger' that naturally draws people to him. There was a poll during the last election on who you’d want at your backyard BBQ and GW won hands down over Kerry. He’s just more likable on a personal level. His approach… Look at when he originally took office, even Democrats were marveling at how he ran a much tighter ship than Bill Clinton in that it was a more business oriented approach. For example, they said, if you had a 10am meeting Clinton scheduled for an hour, he's show up whenever and talk your ear off for 2 hours. GW was there at 10, expected you to be there at 10, listened attentively to the experts, because they were the experts (not him), made decisions based on that combined w/ his own plans and moved on. He also has that Texas charm, which I know so many of you hate, but just as many others love. He also has the ‘caring’ aspect about him. Not like Clinton who’d go to a funeral and keep looking up to see when the cameras were on him. But honest caring for people in need. When some tragedy hit lately (I forget which), he took a walk w/ a group of youngsters and made the secret service and reports stay away. He wasn’t looking to “appear” caring, he simply was.
Wow. I don't really know what to say to this. Bush is caring? I don't see it at all. Of course you will say it is my bias but I think the facts bear out that he has been most uncaring (Iraqi innocents, Katrina, 9-11 rescue workers). He always seems to act with corporate interest first and national interest second.
I also think part of being considerate and charming is being able to listen to people. President Bush pretty much does what he wants regardless of what other people think or how potentially dangerous it is.
Hey Dave, I am having trouble getting some text from this article that I wanted to post about today so it will have to wait until next week. This was in regards to Obama and foreign policy.
Well, I don't know what tell you Mr. Blue. I gave you 2 concrete examples of both listening and caring and a contrasting example of Bill Clinton’s lack of sincerity; you simply choose not to see them. Its fine that you see things from your own perspective, but if the last election is any clue, roughly 50% of the population sees him this way as well, so it shouldn’t be so shocking to you.
Katrina? Oh, that’s right. That’s why I replaced 911 on my phone w/ a speed dial to the White House; they’re there to take care of my every need. (Oops, was that too sarcastic???)
Yes, it's true. It's hard for me to see Bush's caring moments (I don't doubt that he has them) when he has acted in such an amoral fashion in other areas. To give you an idea how I see things, it would be like saying Hugo Chavez or Mahamoud Achmenigad are OK guys because once a month they give candy away to kids. Then they spend the rest of the month arresting, torturing, and killing people for political and financial gain. Yep, what a great couple a' joes!
Chavez. Ahmadinejad. Bush. All in the same sentence… All referenced to arresting, torturing and killing for political and financial gain. I have no doubt that you see it that way. Mores the pity. I only regret that it took this many posts, this much wasted time to learn the sad truth.
It’s getting late on a holiday commemorating the veterans who gave the ultimate sacrifice to save you from the very type of governments to which you compare our own leader. And I have no further time for the likes of you.
Do both of you believe in serendipity? I was at a party last week in which I got into a fight with a bunch of liberal friends of mine on this very topic. Yes, it's true, Dave, it happens all the time.
The fight began when my friends told me about how great Hugo Chavez was for the world. I looked them in the eye and laughed my ass off. They all looked at me stunned as if I kicked them in the gut. I then proceeded to explain to them that the very things they were ripping Bush for, just a few minutes before they started lavishing Chavez with praise, were the exact thing that Chavez and folks were up to. They didn't see it.
A couple of days later, I was hanging out with a buddy of mine from the gym who is very conservative. We saw Danny Glover on TV cozying up to Chavez and both of us remarked that he was a moroon. I then gave my pal the same line as I gave the liberals at the party I was at and then HE proceeded to say much of the same thing that Dave has said above. I guess I can never win and no one likes me :)
My point is this: all world leaders are inherently corrupt and seek to gain as much power as they can through accumulation of wealth. Whether it's a Communist or a Capitialist....in the end it's all about money. Call me cynical but I think that is what true blue was trying to get at...if I can put words in his/her mouth.
-just dave,
Read this and then try to cop an attitude with me like the one you did above with true blue..
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-elmasri3mar03,0,3264255.story
This is but one example of many of how our country has lost its moral compass.
I thought Morality in government was bad. Who sets the "moral compass"?
Oh yeah, traveller, I'll go you one better!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Vance
This is someone who was on our side and look what happened to him!
Waiting for a response, -just dave
RLD,
I think you and I do...that is set the moral compass...don't we?
Here's more on the Donald Vance story...something we talked about awhile on this blog actually.
http://www.ridenhour.org/prizes_03.shtml
You all don’t have much faith in our leaders. Is it such a stretch of the imagination to believe that the gov’t simply made a mistake w/ these chaps? I don’t think I’ve been quoted as calling the gov’t faultless or perfect. Khaled El-Masri was apprehended because he appeared to have a bogus passport and his name just happened to be the same as a wanted terrorist. Donald Vance was also caught in an unfortunate, although quite plausible, misunderstanding due to his unusual circumstances. I know liberals are big on defendants’ rights, but do you really believe that in a time of war, the military is going to let somebody go simply because they’re presented with the unique situation of a couple of guys saying “they didn’t do it”?
Interrogation isn’t nice, but someone’s not playing w/ a full deck if they’re trying to equate our tactics verse that of Iran. …and I don’t debate people who argue the moon is made of Swiss cheese.
BTW…What ever happened to those lawsuits? Surely something of such merit went to fruition?
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