Contributors

Tuesday, February 02, 2010

Ah Hah!

Last in Line will be happy to know that I finally have an answer to his question "Why can't you get anything passed with Democrats running both the executive branch and the legislative branch?"

My answer?

It only takes one person to cause a panic by yelling "Fire!!!" in a crowded theater.

The BBC's answer?

This brilliant article from the BBC.


For Mr Westen, stories always trump statistics, which means the politician with the best stories is going to win: "One of the fallacies that politicians often have on the Left is that things are obvious, when they are not obvious.

"Obama's administration made a tremendous mistake by not immediately branding the economic collapse that we had just had as the Republicans' Depression, caused by the Bush administration's ideology of unregulated greed. The result is that now people blame him."

No shit.

"You vote to strike a blow against elitism and you receive a social order in which wealth is more concentrated than ever before in our life times, workers have been stripped of power, and CEOs are rewarded in a manner that is beyond imagining."

Double no shit!!

74 comments:

Anonymous said...

That person must have held done the "Yell, 'Fire!'" button, 'cause they still haven't done shit.

Parables, metaphors, and ambiguous hypothetical situations - for when you can't be bothered to contend the actual points at hand.

Anonymous said...

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Please note the dates and that George Bush is not in office during this time.

last in line said...

Quick notes from the article....

Even when the left is confident with facts on their side? I couldn't get any of you to even offer up a simple comment or two on the stimulus bill or the cap and trade bill. Let me guess - you are all just hiding the really great facts about those bills.

The article contains a story about Texas voters. You aren't just losing in Texas, you're losing in Massachusetts.

If "wealth is more concentrated than ever before in our life times, workers have been stripped of power, and CEOs are rewarded in a manner that is beyond imagining" at the same time you all got everything you ever could have dreamed of out of the last election, why do you all bother voting for democrats? If things are not to your liking right now, it's because the democrats you voted for, along with the republicans, want it that way.

The poorest citizens have an emotional attachment to the GOP? You've said on here several times that the poor tend to vote democrat. Which is it?

Congress exempted themselves from the new health care bill. Why do you suppose that is? It should tell you a lot about the bill.

Did you consider the possibility that the health care bill sucks?

Markadelphia said...

I will be talking about the budget soon enough, anon. Just as a prep, pick out the item that is the biggest piece of the pie. I'm not complaining about it but are going to be interested in your thoughts.

Last,

Stimulus Bill-let's see....the GOP and Bill Clinton decide to deregulate everything. Then the top 1 percent blow all their money and beg for more. They get it...twice...from taxpayers. Then they bitch about the cap gains tax cuts expiring. What a collection of assholes.

Cap and Trade-not up on this one yet so my comments would be woefully ignorant. It's not high on my radar.

MASS-The state that already has Universal Health Care votes against it for the nation. Well, they have theirs...

I bothered voting for Democrats for several reasons. Off the top of my head....an increased presence in AfPak (done) and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff saying that gays and lesbians can serve in the military. That's just a start.

Some of the poorest have attachments to the GOP, not all. Remember, the grays, my friend (and that's not aliens)

I don't think the health care bill sucks. I think it has its flaws but at least it addresses some of the major issues. Andy summed it up best recently.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2010/Senate/Maps/Feb01-s.html#2

and

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2010/Senate/Maps/Feb01-s.html#3

All of this being said, last..you are not typical of the current form of the GOP. You ask informed questions, backed up by facts, and use those to form your opinions. That is not what many on the right do today. They are as this article described.

Kevin said...

"Obama's administration made a tremendous mistake by not immediately branding the economic collapse that we had just had as the Republicans' Depression, caused by the Bush administration's ideology of unregulated greed. The result is that now people blame him."

Complete and utter BULLSHIT.
All we've heard from the moment Obama got into office is his CONSTANT whine about how its not his fault. Gibbs said he's on a speaking tour right now to REMIND people that its not his fault - in case anyone out there hasn't heard yet that its not his fault. Did you know, its not his fault?
Well, he was voted in ostensibly to FIX it and he's fucking COMPOUNDING the problem. The money he's pissing away isn't free. Nor is it limitless. He's like a damn teenager with Daddy's American Express Gold Card.

"You ask informed questions, backed up by facts, and use those to form your opinions. That is not what many on the right do today. They are as this article described."

More crap. Last IS an informed, thoughtful person, judging by what he posts. I don't want to take any of that away. However, your insinuation that he is unique amongst a group of Neanderthals or dimwits is way off base. People who don't agree with YOUR plan on how to live their lives are not necessarily stupid. They may have in fact studied HISTORY and know full well what your utopian plans lead to. They may have studied economics and have learned that when you ratchet up taxes, you actually take in less, or have learned - that you apparently have not - that government cannot negate the laws of supply and demand.

Markadelphia said...

"They may have in fact studied HISTORY and know full well what your utopian plans lead to."

Just an initial thought before I respond to the rest of this Kevin...I hear this all the time and I am now officially calling you on it. What history are you talking about? The one where we basically had socialism in this country for 12 years and defeated the greatest army this world had ever seen? Or the one where we ran record deficits during the Civil War, WWI and WWII?

How about the one where the marginal tax rate for the top 1 percent was over 90 percent? Or the one where we successfully created a government run health care program that continues to have high approval ratings? How about the one where France has the top health care system in the world? Or the one where India, who has several socialist components in their government, is pummeling us economically along with China?

Perhaps we should consider an alternate history in which social security was privatized and Wall Street pissed it all away. Yeah, sign me up for that fucking shit right now.

Kevin said...

I'll be glad to. It will have to wait until after I get off work tonight though as it's likely to be lengthy - for me at least.

juris imprudent said...

M, speaking for myself I'd rather be free and poor than comfortably confined in a cozy straightjacket of socialist conformity.

If I'm free, I have a chance to do something about being poor.

The womb may be a wonderful way to enter this world, but it is no place to spend your entire life.

last in line said...

Why do you think congress exempted themselves from the health care bill? You voted for them. Anyone?

Kevin said...

M, here you go.
http://brownvalleykingdom.blogspot.com/2010/02/what-history-has-taught-me-about.html

Apologies for the delay. This is likely the longest post I've ever written, and a wordsmith I am not.

Markadelphia said...

Last, probably because they like their own version better. Or they didn't want to appear to be taking advantage of the taxpayers. Where is this talking point of yours coming from? Be honest...:)

Kevin, absorbing your post...

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last in line said...

...or maybe they know exactly what the regulations are in the bill and they don't want to live under them themselves.

Markadelphia said...

Maybe...but what's the difference between this bill and the one that MASS already has?

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

For starters, it's against the law for the Federal Government to provide health care.

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

"Where is this talking point of yours coming from?"

Even if it is a "talking point", So Frakkin' What?

There are FAR more relevant questions: "Is it true?" and "If so, WHY is it true?"

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

"Obama's administration made a tremendous mistake by not immediately branding the economic collapse that we had just had as the Republicans' Depression, caused by the Bush administration's ideology of unregulated greed."

There's a reason why they failed to do that:

It's Not True

Markadelphia said...

Hmmm...didn't Bush himself say that Wall Street "got drunk and now we have the hangover?"

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

Another topic we've gone over with you so often the words should be burned into your screen. And yet you apparently can't even remember it.

Here's a hint: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, CRA.

That's the kind of thing that has me convinced that you're a waste of time.

Markadelphia said...

Yeah, we have ED, and you still haven't accepted the fact that the CRA only applies to banks and thrifts. This is a fact. So explain to me how only those mortgages caused the meltdown.

We've also gone over that it was the ALT-A loans from Fannie and Freddie that caused the problem. These were born out of F and F trying to keep up with the private sector and failing.

You asked me for facts. I give them to you. You call me stupid. Pretty much sums up the right.

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

" the CRA only applies to banks and thrifts"

And who writes the loans, dummy?

Markadelphia said...

From independent mortgage companies. Ed, for someone who just accused me of suffering from confirmation bias, you are displaying a text book example of it.

You begin with your belief that it's all the government's fault that the collapse occurred. Then you work your way back, ignoring basic truths about why it ACTUALLY happened.

Here are the facts...again...

The Community Reinvestment Act (or CRA, Pub.L. 95-128, title VIII, 91 Stat. 1147, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) is a United States federal law that requires banks and thrifts to offer credit throughout their entire market area and prohibits them from targeting only wealthier neighborhoods with their services, a practice known as redlining. The purpose of the CRA is to provide credit, including home ownership opportunities to under served populations and commercial loans to small businesses.

The vast majority of the sub prime loans in the last 10 years did not originate from banks or thrifts. Half of them came from places beyond the reach of CRA. Another quarter came from subsidiaries. The final quarter of sub prime loans came from CRA and that kind of debt isn't enough to drive our economy off the cliff.

And F/F

A substantial portion of Fannie's and Freddie's credit losses comes from $337 billion and $237 billion, respectively, of Alt-A mortgages that the agencies imprudently bought or guaranteed in recent years to boost their market share. These are mortgages for which little or no attempt was made to verify the borrowers' income or net worth. The principal balances were much higher than those of mortgages typically made to low-income borrowers. In short, Alt-A mortgages were a hallmark of real-estate speculation in the ex-urbs of Las Vegas or Los Angeles, not predatory lending to low-income folks in the inner cities.

All of this doesn't even include the interconnectivity, resulting from Glass Steagall being chucked out the window, that caused a company like AIG (with pressure from Goldman) to almost fail.

Of course, all of this will fall on deaf ears, won't it Ed? As many with your mindset often do, you will make up whatever you want so you aren't "wrong."

Ed "What the" Heckman said...

" From independent mortgage companies."

I worked with one of those mortgage companies when we were buying our house. They don't actually provide the money themselves. Can you tell me where they get the money?

Banks.

"Of course, all of this will fall on deaf ears, won't it Ed?"

Standard Response #9

juris imprudent said...

You begin with your belief that it's all the government's fault that the collapse occurred.

No he doesn't, nor do I. The one who insists that the govt had NOTHING to do with it is... YOU! You won't even admit that the govt was PART of the problem. Then you LIE about what other people say. I really don't like you very much when you do that.

Markadelphia said...

I do agree they were part of the problem largely in underegulation. I'm not lying...this all goes back to a thread which essentially blamed the "gubmint" giving loans to poor people as the cause for the recession. Of course, Wall Street had nothing to do with it.

Ed, I suggest you refer to the testimony of Michael Barr at a February 2008 hearing before the House.

http://financialservices.house.gov/hearing110/barr021308.pdf

It doesn't matter if they got the money from a bank. The loans were not regulated by the CRA because half of them did not fall under it's purview. The next 25% to 30% came from only partially CRA regulated bank subsidiaries and affiliates. In his testimony, he said that "the worst and most widespread abuses occurred in the institutions with the least federal oversight."

This is exactly why these loans were made through these institutions...to avoid federal oversight and regulation.

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Ed "What the" Heckman said...

Thanks to DJ, I now have the link to "the rest of the story" which Marxy has "conveniently" forgotten.

Like I keep saying, going over the same ground with you, Marxy, is a complete waste of time because you keep wiping stuff you don't want to know out of your mind.

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It appears each 12 weeks most people begin buying before and previously for Christmas. Final 12 weeks I started out in the starting of October and had all of the reveals wrapped through the end for this month. This 12 many weeks I began even sooner to carry benefit of the number of outlets providing mid yr revenue.

Visit Now : Shopping Online

Why Store Previously

Browsing previously has two primary benefits - acquiring healthier discounts and avoiding the vacation rush. However it has its drawbacks as well. A huge variety of toy and game producers specially, only launch their most current merchandise quite near for the holidays. This implies that if you're likely to store within the center from the calendar year, you won't have the ability to have the newest products around the marketplace. One way to have near this would be to pre-order. In reality pre-ordering solutions may well even fetch you reductions and totally free presents.
[url=http://www.shoppingblogging.com]Christmas Shopping[/url]
But in numerous instances, for those who maintain your eyes open, you possibly can get healthier bargains throughout the slow or off season, retail sensible. Various mobile phone producers launch their most current designs throughout the center belonging to the 12 weeks. This signifies that previous versions is going to be heading at rock bottom rates about two many weeks prior to the launch in the replacement.

Some citizens carry browsing before towards the severe but looking appropriate following the holidays towards the following holidays. Post vacation product sales are at times even more suitable than pre-holiday revenue as departmental shops make an effort to obvious excess stock by providing ridiculous deals.

Needful Adjustments

Moving up Christmas searching a couple of many weeks will take just a bit adjustment, spending budget smart, specifically while in the main 12 several weeks in the timetable alter. However it doesn't carry a great deal to have used to it. Its just a matter of maintaining to some set routine of placing slightly money apart for shows.

The Gift Conundrum

Apart from producing purchases for the duration of revenue, choosing in bulk can conserve you plenty of money. Its continuously excellent to break recipients into a couple of groups initial - near household, household, near mates, mates, colleagues - you receive the concept. Performing so enables you to organize your obtaining far better. That mentioned I only have two recipient groups - instant household folks and other people.

Obviously you'd wish to purchase additional private and thoughtful presents for your folks closer for you. But for extra generic presents, I advise pack buying, that is just like pack hunting, only nicer.

Pack browsing right here indicates gathering a few of good friends with comparable purchasing lists after which getting in bulk to carry benefit of economies of scale. I usually pack store with two other people today with regards to generic presents. You can uncover that you’re able to get extremely good presents like wine glasses at surely good rates whenever you pack store.

Anonymous said...

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Appears like www.blogger.com may be a staggering forum for me
I am happy to have discovered it.


This made me smile and hopefully after your last post it will do the same for you: I took an IQ test and the results were negative. :


Lol!

Anybody do R/C Planes


Looking forward to a good long stay here!

Minnesota,Chisholm

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