I had an epiphany this week. The main reason why conservatives tend to champion the free market is because they consider attaining wealth to be one of the most admirable qualities. I offer as an example this article from the Times regarding a recent visit to Congress by several prominent CEOs in the financial services industry in an attempt to justify their large payout packages. My favorite quote:
Many Republicans on the committee fought the very premise of the hearing. “This is a hearing in search of bad guys,” said Darrell E. Issa, Republican of California. “Are there bad guys in front of me? I’m not seeing it.”
I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
6 comments:
Do you ever see people as individuals or is everyone simply a member of a group?
There are plenty of good rich people who got that was because of hard work and risk taking. There are plenty of bad rich people who got that way simply by turning 18 and getting a trust fund. I happen to admire millionaires like Chistopher Gardner who came from nothing. I'm indifferent to rich people like Elliot Spitzer (whose father is uber rich) because that's life.
There is no nobility in poverty. So you can tell if a person is good or bad based on how much money they make? Wow. You're nothing more than Mr. Issa on the other end of the spectrum.
Ah, the politics of class envy.
I think both of you missed the point. The guys that went up in front of Congress were given insane payout packages while their customers, who came to them in the glorious free market, were left penniless. They are swindlers...criminals who prey upon people who are weak and you think these are admirable traits?
This is a prime example of the society we live in now. We are getting more and more stratified.
According to Business Week, the average CEO of a major corporation made 42 times the average hourly worker's pay in 1980. By 1990 that had almost doubled to 85 times. In 2000, the average CEO salary reached an unbelievable 531 times that of the average hourly worker. I wonder what it is now?
It isn't fair and it is going to be the death of our society. Why do you think the economy is in the tank right now? People don't have any money to spend...
Now, I have no problem with people making money or being successful as long as it is...um...ethical? Would you like an example of what I call "good" capitalism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Miller_%28office_equipment%29
Click on "servant leadership" in the last line and read more...
The reason why this company's profits jumped from 40 million to 1.6 billion is because they adapted this model. Sadly, many companies do not follow this schema because the people that run them are criminals and they are encouraged to be that way by the large majority of right wingers in this country.
Now here is what I find really hypocritical of both of you. Dave, you put a link in here to the David Mamet piece. In that piece, he basically said that liberals think that people are basically good (a fault) and conservatives think that people are basically bad (a strength) and, if given power, will abuse that power.
So why are CEOs like the ones I linked given a free pass?
"It isn't fair..." Fair-shmare. Who the heck are you (or I) to say how much anyone else should make? If a law has been broken, prove it; prosecute ‘em & lock ‘em up…no worries. But if a law hasn’t been broken, it’s just whining.
Did I say I admired these people? I don’t think I said that. I don’t believe anybody is worth that much but I also know what’s my business and what’s not. And it’s none of my business if a company wants to run itself into the ground by paying someone through the nose. And it’s none of my business if someone wants to work for that company. And it’s none of my business if someone is dumb enough to take out an interest only home mortgage on a variable rate that changes 2 months into ownership. A fool and their money are lucky enough to get together in the first place…and there are too many fools in this world to protect them all from themselves.
Skimmed the link…I guess Harvard, Mellon and all the other wonderful business schools should just close up shop...you’ve found the only model we’ll need from here on out.
Fair Shmare indeed. Who decides what is fair and what isn't?
I can't believe you still start sentences with things like "The reason why conservatives..." and "Most conservatives think...". On, ahem, other blogs you're not having very good luck starting sentences like that. Anyone with a brain would go read actual writings from conservatives rather than relying on what you type up about them. For example - this conservative doesn't encourage the behavior of those CEO's - I'm indifferent to them...not my problem and I spend very little time thinking about their salary because there isn't anything I can do about it (my internal locus of control). In other words - that is NOT the main reason I champion the free market. You really don't pay attention to anything conservatives say on your blog, which is probably the reason why so few of them bother to post here.
The company I work at is doing quite well and we didn't follow that model. I'm sure there were other factors at play in the success of the company in your example. I'm happy for them.
I'd like to take back one thing I said above - just because someone inherits a great deal of money doesn't make them bad. Nobody can choose their ancestors.
haha, I took a few other things from the Mamet article...like...
"What about the role of government? Well, in the abstract, coming from my time and background, I thought it was a rather good thing, but tallying up the ledger in those things which affect me and in those things I observe, I am hard-pressed to see an instance where the intervention of the government led to much beyond sorrow."
and
"that people need both to get ahead and to get along, and that they're always working at one or the other, and that government should most probably stay out of the way and let them get on with it."
Sounds like many things justdave, myself, pl and Kevin say all the time. The free market has inherent, unavoidable flaws. You've been told that several times now.
So large CEO salaries are going to be the death of our society? I got it - why don't we increase regulation, make it easier to sue businesses and increase corporate taxes! That'll learn em!
You don't even work in Corporate America.
Funny, both of you just proved Markadelphia's points for him. I work at a mid sized corporation where the CEO makes a decent salary but makes sure that his employees are treated well. They all share in profits and we are similar to Herman Miller in many ways.
Our CEO does not make 541 times the wage of the average employee. It's more like 20 times and that's really how it should be. What both of you are missing is the fact that these stories of CEOs and their large payouts are doing damage to our system. I don't think you can afford to be indifferent. Quite literally...
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