Whether he knew it or not, Stephen Colbert (in the video I posted yesterday) summed up exactly how the conservative movement of this country has as many followers as it does. I also now understand the motivations of some of my posters.
If you take a look at most conservatives these days, they are pissed off about something. Abortion, gay marriage, the debt, unions...whatever...and each of these things are demonized to such a point of irrationality that it's quite befuddling. For years, I thought they were just dicks. Recently, I have to come think that they are mostly just bullies and adolescents but I didn't take that extra step until reading this article in the Times and hearing Colbert two days ago.
I was so blind.
What do most bullies have in common? They all have a bunch of crappy things going on in their personal lives so they act out when they are at school. Or, in this case since they are "adults," the act like creeps when they are out with people and/or posting on blogs. Take the example of Rick Hahan from the Times article.
“Something needs to be done,” he said, “and quickly.”
Across Wisconsin, residents like Mr. Hahan have fumed in recent years as tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs have vanished, and as some of the state’s best-known corporations have pressured workers to accept benefit cuts.
Fumed...there's the anger that they tap into as easy as pie which is why something needs to be done "quickly," I wonder if Mr. Hahan understands that this problem could have been easily remedied by not cutting taxes as the Governor did upon taking office. Taxes that were cut, I might add, to favor the people that are (in reality) the reason why Mr. Hahan is out of a job.
And see how easily anger becomes resentment in the case of Mary Kay Horter.
Ms. Horter said she was forced to work more hours as an occupational therapist, but had not seen a raise or any retirement contributions from her employer for the last two years. All told, her family’s income has dropped by about a third.
“I don’t get to bargain in my job, either,” she said.
Ah, I see. Since Ms. Horter and Mr. Hahan don't have the same benefits, why should anyone else? Everyone, I guess, should be as miserable as them regardless of how hard they have worked to get to where they are today.
Misery does indeed love company. In American today there a fuck load of people, like Ms. Horter and Mr. Hahan, who are miserable and don't really like themselves very much. It's become increasingly obvious that these folks are ripe fruit for the pickins.
Guess who are the produce collectors?
27 comments:
Since Ms. Horter and Mr. Hahan don't have the same benefits, why should anyone else? Everyone, I guess, should be as miserable as them regardless of how hard they have worked to get to where they are today.
Yes, how hard they've worked to collectively bargain their benefits taken, yes taken from others.
They've worked hard to be in the position to force other people to pay for their lifestyle. How dare those proles complain when they feel like a turnip being squeezed for their lifeblood.
What bullies filled with irrational anger! Don't they understand that the government still has checks, so they can't possibly be out of money. How easy, just raise taxes. Print more money. Whatever, it doesn't matter, as long as 'we' don't have to take a cut.
Pick any random month in the archives here and you will see examples of Markadelphia pissed off about something. Obama has kept the warrantless wiretaps going but markadelphia doesn't seem to be outraged about that anymore. Oh, and it isn't a matter of not wanting others to have benefits, it's wanting them to chip in for their benefits.
a turnip being squeezed for their lifeblood.
Wow. So you equate the services that public workers provide (and are paid for at a very low salary) with this? Education? As I have said many times recently, I refuse to coddle psychosis about government.
Yeah, rld, I get angry about stuff....like people getting angry with no rational or factual basis and then working very hard to help rich people get more money and power. Sheesh....
and it isn't a matter of not wanting others to have benefits, it's wanting them to chip in for their benefits
Ah yes, the rugged individualist fantasy. Not all that different from the Utopian left wing visions of the 1960s...no clear understanding of reality. Or what the words "culture" and "society" mean.
Weird, isn't it Mark? It's almost like the mechanism used to compensate private sector workers is different than public sector workers. Even more weirdly, people seem to think that it's more their business how public sector workers are compensated versus private sector workers. Oh if only we could come up with a reason for this state of affairs. It's probably racism. Or the Koch brothers.
that public workers provide (and are paid for at a very low salary)
Wait, aren't you the same guy that says [public school] teachers are NOT underpaid? Now you say that ALL public workers have very low salaries?
Really?
I get angry about stuff..
But it is different, right? Your anger is pure, holy and righteous and their anger is evil, twisted and mean.
Really?
Ah yes, the rugged individualist fantasy.
Paying in for your own benefits and retirement is a "rugged individualist fantasy"? If you don't pay in for what YOU will benefit from, who IS supposed to pay for it? Or is this just an example of your everyone pay for me and fuck you social fantasy?
Haplo9, what's amazing to me is how you continually cheer the destruction of the last remaining mechanisms that are actually of benefit to you...all in the name of a fantasy where we all live as rugged individualists. It's really fucking sad, dude.
Juris, I never said that criticizing teachers was off limits. They do have lower salaries but should accept that as part of the deal of public service. I don't take kindly to teachers who bitch about how low their salaries are. I also don't take kindly to d bag Governors who want to take away as much of that paltry salary as they can in order to further the interests of a plutocracy.
My anger isn't holy, juris. I've never thought that. It's all born of frustration. The problem here is that you (and some others) can't accept the fact that I might be right about many of the things I bring up. For example, there is no doubt in my mind that you will be affected personally and adversely if this troubling (and insane) demonization of unions continues. You are too wrapped up in trying to win arguments to see what's coming.
>what's amazing to me is how you continually cheer the destruction of the last remaining mechanisms
Which mechanisms of public sector unions help me out Mark? Try to be specific, if that is possible for you.
>The problem here is that you (and some others) can't accept the fact that I might be right about many of the things I bring up.
There is, of course, a far more likely possibility. Rather than this being a personalized vendetta against you and anything you say, it just might be that your claims are so unconvincing and so poorly thought out that they tend to get rejected. Your ego tends to inhibit consideration of this, of course, but that's hardly our fault.
>For example, there is no doubt in my mind that you will be affected personally and adversely if this troubling (and insane) demonization of unions continues.
So you having no doubt means.. what exactly? We should take your word on it? You seem unaware that your history of emotion driven 'thought' renders the possibility of your word carrying any weight at near zero. So let's have some details teacher boy. What terrible things will happen if public sector unions lose this battle in Wisconsin?
The problem here is that you (and some others) can't accept the fact that I might be right about many of the things I bring up.
You can't accept that you might NOT be right. You can justify your anger (to yourself) so long as you are right. It's a little scary to contemplate that you might be angry and wrong, isn't it?
FDR said public employees should not be unionized. I'm the one that agrees with him - not you. Funny huh? The world just won't conform to stereotypes - not the ones you insist I conform to, or the ones that you wear ever so comfortably. I respect that you don't toe the teacher's union line, yet you can't respect my (and FDR's) opinion on AFSCME.
Wow. So you equate the services that public workers provide (and are paid for at a very low salary) with this?
Wow. Just where the hell do you think the money to pay those public workers comes from? The money tree Mark? Hint, if Mr. Taxpayer is having trouble putting food on the table, paying the mortgage, putting gas in the car or paying for electricity he probably doesn't think he should pony up some more for a public employee's cost of living increase.
there is no doubt in my mind that you will be affected personally and adversely if this troubling (and insane) demonization of unions continues.
Demonization of unions? Unions? As in all unions? Or rather out of control unions? Or even public employee unions? Which one are you talking about? Which one do you think we are talking about?
Nobody here is demonizing unions. If there are people demonizing out of control unions, well so what? Do you defend out of control unions? Rather, I bet your definition of an out of control union is a bit different than mine. But that's not really what you are talking about is it Mark?
You conflate the demonization of public employee unions with all unions. That's what is being discussed, public unions.
Separate the two, because they are not the same thing. If you want to discuss the relative merits of public employee unions, then do so. I will gladly give you my point of view.
But first, please tell us what's coming....Tell us how we will be affected personally and adversely? Tell us what remaining mechanisms are beneficial to us and how their destruction is a bad thing.
If you don't pay in for what YOU will benefit from, who IS supposed to pay for it?
That's a great question that will probably be ignored. Contributing to your own retirement is a fantasy?
Check the spam trap Mark.
Which mechanisms of public sector unions help me out Mark? Try to be specific, if that is possible for you.
Well, I'd have to know what sort of presence public sector unions have in your state before I made a specific assessment. No need to tell me what state. Just let me know what percentage they are and what services they provide.
On a larger scale, we're talking about allowing the John Birch Society a substantial toe hold into the framework of our country. That's a horrifying concept.
Generally speaking unions have:
1. Set the standard for a 40 hour work week.
2. Defined benefits.
3. Helped workers earn higher wages.
4. Created paid vacation and sick leave.
There's also the little matter of having created a middle class,
If you don't pay in for what YOU will benefit from, who IS supposed to pay for it?
See my post today for a more lengthy response to this horse manure.
And I would direct you, Guard Duck, to the last two paragraphs of the same post.
>Generally speaking unions have:
Fail. You'll notice that everyone was careful to ask you about PUBLIC sector unions, which had little if anything to do with your list of benefits. Further, nobody here or in Wisconsin is talking about eliminating unions - just changing the way certain public sector unions work in Wisconsin. So once again Mark, what terrible things will happen if public sector unions lose this battle in Wisconsin? (I live in Washington state, but surely you can articulate some broad based wonders of public sector unions in general?)
On a side note, I would also argue that defined benefits as used in pension plans or other government entitlements is probably one of the worst financial ideas ever conceived. It shifts costs to the future without regard for the future's ability or desire to pay those costs. Great for politicians and corporate types who want to kick the can down the road. Not so great for the people left holding the bill.
The free viagra they negotiated for themselves was a great public service. You wouldn't want frustrated marxists lurking about it in dark alleys trying to score illegal viagra, would you? Probably the same alleys where previous viagra encounters are seeking abortions. Can you just imagine the Hell on Earth the Republicans are intent on bringing us?
Hap-I was well aware of the word smith games you were playing in order to win the argument. I was being polite in answering your questions. We're not going to play the game again, dude.
And just because you say "Fail" doesn't mean it's true. In fact, with some of you it never does and it actually means success.
Now comes the part where you say I have dodged your question (yawn) when I have answered them once already both here and in a new post.
Glad to see you didn't fall for Haplo9's BS, Mark.
>Hap-I was well aware of the word smith games you were playing in order to win the argument. I was being polite in answering your questions. We're not going to play the game again, dude.
Rofl. Let me get this straight. I ask you a question about the issue at hand. Public sector unions in Wisconsin. Very specifically *not* private sector unions in Wisconsin. So did 2 other people. You purposefully ignored the distinction between private and public unions in your answer; yet when I point that out to you, it is *me* that is playing 'word smith' games. Whatever dude.
It's ok though Mark. I knew up front there was a 99% chance you were bullshitting. I thought I'd at least give you a chance to make a coherent point before concluding that, yet again, your mouth wrote a check that your brain can't cash.
He did the same thing on "immigration" conflating the argument against illegal immigration with being against all immigration. He was called out on that too and couldn't figure it out.
Man, if you could take his singular focus on an issue regardless of how off it is and harness that into a missle guidance system, no chaff, flare, or other countermeasures would ever stop it. :)
Just who are the bullies?
I see a lot of fear and bullying all right, but it's from the unions.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/08/standard-responses-of-markadelphia.html
What # is the "You are just trying to win the argument!" response?
How can unions be bullies with their power so diminished, Larry? Remember this stat from that link put up here.
--Only 12 percent of U.S. workers were represented by unions in 2010, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics says. While just 7 percent of private sector workers belonged to unions last year, 36 percent of public workers were organized, the bureau said--
All the fear and hate is coming from the people who want you to keep contributing to their wealth. And with you incapable of admitting when you are wrong, surprise surprise, they win.
You couldn't be bothered to follow the link, could you, sasquatch? And what do absolute numbers have to do with it? In school, bullies were only a tiny fraction of the school body. But then, being a hairy, smelly ape-man, what would you know about it?
the word smith games
Yes, yes, how dare we mere mortals insist that words having meanings oh mighty humptydelphia.
Seriously, you bring this shit upon yourself. And then wonder what happened and why!
Here is your chance for fame, bigfoot. Mark will run from this thread at light speed and leave you to defend his honor. Pick ANYTHING from Mark's post that you want to defend as your own words.
Ready
GO!
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