I've had a few emails and in person comments about my thoughts on the Joe Wilson deal. I think Andrew Sullivan put it best.
But there was something clarifying about a Southern good ol' boy yelling "Liar" at the president over illegal immigration. That's what the GOP now is: the worst aspects of the old Democratic party combined with a nihilism that is only eclipsed by its catastrophic governance for the past eight years.
No shit. And this is from someone who used to be a Republican.
The problem is that now we have a very large swath of conservatives running around re-framing the bias debate. It's clear to me that Joe Wilson is fucking racist. He can't stand the fact that a black man is president. In fact, I'd wager most people that told their children not to watch President Obama give his education speech last Tuesday are racist as well. But you can't call them on it. Oh no.
Because they start in with the song and dance routine about how that's all liberals know how to do, it's knee jerk reaction, it's unfair..blah blah blah etc etc. From there the left cowers in fear and thinks "Gee, maybe I went too far" and then loses the argument while the original action and it's obvious undertones are long forgotten.
Now, I have no problem admitting that I am biased against Muslim men. It's something I struggle with everyday. The question is...why can't nearly all conservatives admit their problem? I think it ties in to their complete inability to admit when they are at fault. You know...the whole "if you admit you are wrong, you show weakness" meme.
The fact is, folks, that we all have bias. It's part of our socio-cultural context. We distrust the other. And it doesn't matter what side of the aisle we are on. In fact, it's an historical truth that the Democrats have a longer history of racism than the Republicans which I find sad. Not for the Democrats, who have clearly taken steps to outgrow their racism but for the Republicans, a party who once proudly appointed the first black government officials.
A party who cannot see how far they have sunk.
26 comments:
Another post full of nonsense.
"But there was something clarifying about a Southern good ol' boy yelling "Liar" at the president over illegal immigration. "
The "Liar" comment was pointed at illegal immigrants getting coverage under Obama's Healthcare plan....which was a lie among others:
http://minx.cc/?post=292245
and
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech-furious.html
Not only that, what part of illegal don't you and Sullivan understand? Are you seriously entertaining the idea that American taxpayers should basically shoulder the load for everyone, including people breaking the law of the land?
This cartoon is very telling of how economically illiterate the Obama administration is:
http://townhall.com/cartoons/cartoonist/MichaelRamirez/2009/09/6
And Racist?! You are making conclusions based on what? Was there something he said afterward? This is a good take on your argument:
"It is apparent that many Democrats will embrace the race card - those that haven't already - and attempt to delegitimize opponent's arguments against the liberal policies of the president by smearing them as racists.
This not only shows that they are desperate but that they are unable to respond to criticisms. Rather than engage in debate, they simply wish to cut off discussion by branding their foes as haters."
From: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/09/dems_on_playing_the_race_card.html
And the funniest statement you make:
"Not for the Democrats, who have clearly taken steps to outgrow their racism but for the Republicans, a party who once proudly appointed the first black government officials."
Democrats outgrowing their racism? HA HA HA, Seriously? Their entire debate strategy for their platform is based on shouting racism instead of rational debate....exactly how you did in this post. Oh, the irony.
Why don't you address the lies from Obama from his speech? Step up and defend his almost 2 Trillion dollar deficit and willingness to pile on more. Step up a defend his lack of support for a constitutional process in Honduras. Or even better, step up and defend this train wreck of a Health Care bill(s) as being fiscally responsible and even being necessary where even the Adminstration is now waffling and changing things trying to cover their tracks.
Debate the issues instead of attacking the opposition as racist and fear mongers or is that too hard?
Since nobody seems interested in looking at the facts behind Joe Wilsons charge re: the healthcare bill and illegal immigration...
It's in section 246 of the health care bill that is before congress right now. The Congressional Research Service says that HR3200 has absolutely no enforcement capability to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving care under the public option.
On Friday, the White House put out a "clarification" of their position on participation in its proposed health care plan by illegal immigrants. For the first time, the White House acknowledged that it will be necessary to implement a verification system so that illegals can't sign up for Obama's proposed insurance exchange.
The "clarification" read: "Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible."
During the course of the health care debate in recent months, in the House Ways and Means Committee, the Republicans tried to amend the health care bill to require use of the SAVE system or a similar safeguard. Their amendment was voted down on a straight party-line vote. Is that proof that "your side" did indeed intend for illegal immigrants to obtain coverage under Obamacare:
The House bill, as currently structured, does not offer clear guidelines to ensure that illegal immigrants cannot access taxpayer-funded health care benefits. Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) introduced an amendment that would use two citizenship status verification systems, the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) programs, to establish an individual's eligibility to obtain the bill's proposed affordability credits or enroll in the public insurance option. Both programs are currently used to determine citizenship status and eligibility for public assistance programs. Safeguards to guarantee that only citizens can access federal health care benefits are necessary, considering that the US Census Bureau currently estimates that 9.6 million of the uninsured are not US citizens. The first Heller amendment failed on a straight party-line vote.
I'd like to thank the white house for admitting that Joe Wilson was right. This doesn't mean, of course, that any verification system will actually be included in the final version of the bill that Obama signs. Will "your side" omit such safeguards from the final version of whatever bill eventually passes? I'll be paying attention.
Do any of you have a problem admitting that the enforcement amendments got voted down by your party on a straight party line vote or do you want to continue to play the race card?
I think the real question, last, is why is the base so against illegal immigrants? They say it is because they are enforcing the borders etc..but I don't believe them.
Nice wording and nice attempt to change the subject. Sorry slapnuts, it's your legislation. Why don't one of you tell all of us why illegal immigrants should all get free healthcare under the public option. The folks you voted for stripped the enforcement procedures out of the bill. Can't give a reason for that so you jump right back to racism. Typical.
I'll answer that one...
http://factcheck.org/2009/09/immigrants-and-insurance/
I'm not quite sure what the base wants here, last, but it seems something along the lines of clubbing illegals over the head if they are sick and telling them to fuck off. The bill is pretty explicit in saying that illegal immigrants will not be covered.
The subject IS racism, btw, because that is exactly where all of this comes from. The people that complain about this part of the bill are using code to the rednecks in the base to drum up opposition to the bill. It's not because we don't want people in the country here illegally because it's against the law...it that were the case you wouldn't have the business part of the Republican party doing their Claude Rains impression in the immigration debate.
The deflection that is going on is NOT on the left but on the right doing an excellent "babe in the woods" routine. The utter lack of human compassion on the part of the base is astounding considering they call themselves "Christian."
You can go ahead and do your little dance about how that's all the left has and how evil it is to play the race card. At the end of the day it's racism, dude, pure and simple. And I'm not going to back down from such an obvious truth.
I don't know Joe Wilson, so I can't really be certain whether his "You lie!" outburst was motivated by racism.
Similarly, I don't know Sarah Palin, so I can't know for sure whether her "Real Americans" comments were racist code for "rural white Americans."
But I do know my father and my brothers-in-law. Over time you learn what the code words are for racism. Back in the '80s it was Reagan's welfare queens. These days it's illegal immigrants and Obama's birth certificate.
My father is one of those "birthers." He insists that Obama isn't an American and that Obama's birth certificate is fake.
My father was born in Wisconsin, of an American mother and a Norwegian father. Dad didn't speak English when he started school. His father never became an American citizen.
I saw my father's birth certificate. It was riddled with errors — the county name was spelled wrong, it wasn't signed by the doctor, there was no hospital named, some of the information about the parents wasn't filled in, and it wasn't filed until almost a year after the birth. There is no other contemporary evidence of birth in the US; say, an announcement in a local paper. But my dad insists he's an American and Obama is not.
About 15 years ago my fourth and youngest sister married a guy from Texas who happens to be Mexican American (they met in the Army Reserve). My father disowned her. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure my dad's a racist.
He owned a small janitorial business back in the sixties. He's always had a hatred for unions, bitched about liberals and high taxes. He used to hire window cleaners for cash off the books to avoid paying the employer's part of Social Security and Medicare taxes (and obviously didn't check their citizenship status). He got in trouble with the IRS for tax evasion and spent years paying off back taxes.
After I left for college he cleaned buses on the night shift at the MTC (the government-run bus company). At holiday gatherings he would laugh about how he could clean his share of buses in three hours and sleep the rest of the shift.
He retired with a full union pension and medical benefits. Two years ago he had a pacemaker put in, all paid for by Medicare and his union medical coverage. He is alive today because he worked for a government-run bus company in a union job. His pacemaker was paid for by the government-run medical insurance program he stiffed forty years ago.
This past January my first sister suffered a hemorrhagic stroke at age 49. She is alive today because of Minnesota Care (a state-subidized health insurance program). To avoid tax increases the Republican governor of Minnesota is making it harder for people to enroll in Minnesota Care. Without Minnesota Care all of us would be bankrupt or my sister would be dead.
My second sister, the one who attended the anti-immigration rallies and Tea Parties, has also been on Minnesota Care. She was kicked off it a while back and has had to take her kids to free health clinics.
I think my family is representative of the people that Joe Wilson Sarah Palin claim to represent. I have to admit my family is racist. They turn their anger toward the easy targets -- blacks, liberals, Obama, illegals -- instead of the hard ones -- giant corporations, wealthy vested interests and the Republican establishment -- that benefit from keeping them scared and angry.
But they — and most Americans like them — aren't irredeemably racist. When the perceived threats go away most of their resentment and hatred will fade. Over the years American racists have targeted central Europeans, the Irish, Scandinavians, Germans, etc. This too shall pass.
It isn't wrong for Joe Wilson and my dad to be opposed to illegal immigration. But when your opposition become self-defeating and downright dangerous (denying illegals access to health care when they have communicable diseases), it goes too far. If someone is sick or hurt we should take care of them. It's the Christian thing to do.
Being against illegal immigration is not necessarily racist. I think many of my left-leaning brothers and sisters confuse that point.
Yes, these days, illegal immigrants are primarily Latin Americans. I guess they're coming to the US in search of better lives for themselves and their families. To send money home to help their loved ones survive and eventually join them here.
Yes, it is not an easy task to smuggle yourself to the US, and once here, it's not easy to get along. You feel everyone knows you're a criminal, you don't speak the language, in many places you are very conspicuous, and many Americans resent your presence here.
I am a pretty Liberal guy, but I oppose illegal immigration because it hurts the efforts and diminishes the accomplishments of those immigrants who play by the rules to be here. It's not immigration I oppose, it's illegal immigration that I oppose.
I have never been to Mexico. I doubt I will ever go, there's not much there I want to see. I imagine that quite a lot of Mexico sucks. Honduras, Guatemala, Panama and all the rest must be pretty much the same.
Poverty, ignorance, corruption. These are all words that leap to mind when it comes to our poor neighbors to the south. I can't blame people for wanting to leave, and I realize that the hurdles are enormous. I'm sorry. I'm sorry some people have to be born in crappier places than America. But by sneaking into America, you hurt all immigrants, the legal and the illegal. Yes, it is in our national character to welcome foreigners to our shores. Yes, their contributions strengthen our character, make us richer and wiser as a people. But every single illegal immigrant significantly decreases the positive gains made by those who make the effort to play by the rules.
This health care reform bill does not need a provision to cover illegal immigrants. They will have coverage anyway, if they go to a hospital and cannot afford the bill, the county, the state and even the federal government will pay for it anyway. At least here in Minnesota, and especially in Hennepin county, people who can't pay will be covered.
I'm not going to surrender my lefty card for disagreeing with those further left than me on the immigration issue. Being in favor of enforcing the laws does not make me a racist or a conservative. I believe in the rule of law. We cannot decide to ignore immigration laws because they only affect Latinos at this time. Illegal is illegal, regardless of race, sex, religion or sexual preference.
Perhaps those who come here illegally to find a better life should try to make life better in their own country rather than abandon it. Sure it's not easy, but someone has to try to rid Latin America of the corruption, the crime, the poverty, the ignorance and the environmental damage. Every one of the countries in Latin America had to fight to become independent of Spain or Portugal. Perhaps the 21st century is the time to fight the problems in those countries, rather than flee from them.
The subject IS racism, btw, because that is exactly where all of this comes from.
That's a lie. Or to be charitable bordering on PC - severely factually challenged.
Funny how someone around these parts is always talking about how right-wing/conservatives are so fond of demonizing 'the other side'. I guess that excuses the demonizing and mudslinging that you engage in - at least in your own mind.
Wow, blk. That is the best post you have ever put on here. Sounds like many of my relatives who bitch about liberals spooning off the government and yet don't have a job themselves...one of which hasn't had one in over 15 years!
From your link Mark -
"but there’s no enforcement mechanism explicitly specified."
My point exactly. If you pass a law but don't enforce it, proves the politicians really aren't too serious about the law.
"the bill technically requires illegal immigrants to obtain health insurance"
Yeah, they'll all start lining up to buy health insurance once you pass the bill. Riiiiight.
"Update, Sept. 12: White House officials told reporters late on Sept 11 that the president now favors requiring require proof of citizenship before someone could purchase insurance through the exchange"
Exactly what I said as well.
Was that link supposed to refute something I said? Democrats voted down the Heller Amendment on party lines. Why did democrats vote that amendment down? Can't stop talking about "the base", "christians", and Racism long enough to answer a couple questions about what the folks you voted for are doing.
Why did the enforcement amendments get voted down by democrats?
I keep hearing the "racist code" argument... but you know, I have yet to see an actually rational defense of it.
I mean, it's easy to claim "_________ is obviously code for ________", but it's also (at least part of the time) a quite obvious crock of shit, too.
I mean give me a break, MSNBC has implied that any criticism of Obama, for any reason, must be racist in nature, either open or covert.
Sarah Palin got accused of "racism by code" for wearing white to a campaign rally, for cryin out loud. Does this mean that anyone who wears white to a campaign rally and is running against a non-white person is automatically engaging in "code racism"?
The mere assertion, with no support other than "well it's obvious" boils down to nothing more than "you're racist because I said so."
Yes Mark, everyone has biases in one form or another. But for the political party that has demanded, and gotten, four decades of handing out privilege based solely on ethnicity to accuse others of racism for calling such handouts the racism they are, by definition... that's just ludicrous.
blk and markadelphia, does the fact that I don't want to pay other peoples medical bills mean that I am not compassionate? Does one have to pay for other peoples medical bills to be a true Christian? I always thought you didn't like it when people dictated what true christianity was. It's quite clear you all pick and choose which aspects of christianity you like and discard the rest. It isn't an a la carte menu. Does government spending equal compassion in your eyes?
Last, My guess is that the enforcement amendment got voted down because of the impracticality of it. Who is going to enforce it and how much is it going to cost? That's all the Democrats need is more bitching about the cost of something.
The link wasn't supposed to refute anything...just to lay out the facts for the Joe Wilson's that read here.
GOF, you can't deny that a large part of the base can't stand the fact that we have a black president. This is a simple fact. Also, you last line? Wow...handing out privilege? Please tell me that you weren't one of those people that believed the welfare momma driving a Cadillac meme.
RLD, you already are paying for other people's medical bills in the form of higher premiums which, eventually, run the risk of bankrupting you. In your case, you think it's ok to pay a private bureaucrat as opposed to a public one. There really is no difference, though.
Yes, you do have to care for the sick to be a true Christian.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Now, how exactly is that a la carte?
Also, a review of Matthew 5 is perhaps in order for you. I think it's pretty clear where Christ stood on this issue.
"I think it's pretty clear where Christ stood on this issue."
'bet Christ didn't ask the Romans to enforce it on threat of being stabbed in the neck with a gladius, though.
Which is sort of the point.
"Yes, you do have to care for the sick to be a true Christian.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
Ugh, you have no idea about Christ as evidence by the above. He is talking about a transformation from inside which compels service to others in love and that includes charity. NOT COMPULSION by external authority. Get back to Bible study!
"GOF, you can't deny that a large part of the base can't stand the fact that we have a black president. This is a simple fact."
Large part? What does that mean to you? You are making an assumption again with no facts to back it up, just anecdotes and you are extrapolating to the nth degree. It isn't a fact. I would even propose that the democratic party 'base' is more racist than anyone although in your eyes, minorities can't be racist, can they?
"It's clear to me that Joe Wilson is fucking racist."
Really? Please oh omnipotent one, tell us how his 2 word statement had anything whatsoever to do with race?
That's right, it didn't, but liberals can't help but pull the race card when there's no substance or proof to what they're asserting.
Par for the course with you Marky.
"but you know, I have yet to see an actually rational defense of it."
You're expecting Mark to defend his position using rational thought?
He's proven time and time again over at Kevin's that he's not up to the task.
markadelphia, do you think the black students beating up the white student on the bus, and the other black students cheering them on, are racist? Do you think that incident was racially motivated? You all seem to be experts at some racism code, well here's our chance to see how consistent you all are.
You see the words Heal the Sick and think that means Pay Their Medical Bills? How stupid.
All you have is Your Guess as to why the amendment got voted down. Why doesn't your president tell us who will enforce it, that's what a real leader would do.
Mike W, are you seriously suggesting that rational people post at Kevin Baker's blog? I doubt any of them has ever even left the country.
"I doubt any of them has ever even left the country."
I assume that if pressed, you'd bother explaining that rationale? Given that you've only posted two statements (and it's probably a reasonable assumption to say that they're related), are you suggesting that having left the country is a necessary condition for rationality and reason?
Silly fucking me. I thought reason and rationality were based in things like logic, induction, integration, and thinking. Apparently it's cultural exposure - traveling abroad!
Well fuck me sideways - I bet flight attendants are the most well-grounded, sane people on the planet!
Mark,
Sure, a "large part of the base" is probably racist, although 1) you can define that as you like by how you define "large", and 2) that's an assumption, not a fact. To be fair, it may be an assumption along the lines of a cop who "knows damn well the guy did it, come ON", but here as there, it's still inadmissible.
Over 90% of Democrat party blacks polled are publicly on record as voting for Obama because of his skin color, are they not? Please understand, such racial pride after a feeling of such a long struggle is perfectly understandable. But that doesn't change what it is. So the bottom line is that neither party has room to accuse the other of being racist solely by party affiliation.
My problem with the stereotypical "liberal Democrat" view is that they don't do the math. You are so caught up in the fantasy that your own, private definition of "fairness" is actually universal that "It's clear to me that Joe Wilson is fucking racist", based on what? The fact that a white man called a black man a liar when he caught him in a lie.
In other words, your judgment on the matter is apparently based solely on the respective skin colors of the participants.
Question: Was the entire Congressional Black Caucus racist when they heckled Bush and called him a liar at the 2005 SOTU speech (I think it was)? Even though what he was saying about the unsustainability of Social Security turned out to be, in fact, true?
Torch,
I strongly suspect you don't want to go there. There's a high percentage of veterans and engineers at TSM. Both groups tend to get sent to other countries more than the average.
torch sez ... at Kevin Baker's blog? I doubt any of them has ever even left the country.
Want to compare lists bubba?.
It's a la carte because you reject the Christian ethic when it comes to abortion and gay marriage. You and blk only talk about the Christian thing to do when it comes to spending taxpayer money on something.
I noticed also that all this race talk the dems are doing only started happening when obamas poll numbers started falling on the issue.
RLD, why don't you talk about what the Bible says about abortion and gay marriage? Be sure to include the quote from Exodus regarding the punishment for a man who kills an unborn fetus as well as the socio-cultural and historical context of what homosexuality meant at the time of the writing of the Bible.
Your laughable interpretation of the bible is already on display above. Those other 2 subjects won't be any different.
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