It is important to realize that price-elasticity of demand is not necessarily constant over all price ranges. The linear demand curve in the accompanying diagram illustrates that changes in price also change the elasticity: the price elasticity is different at every point on the curve.
It comes down to the central question of whether or not you think people will leave a health care market if the price becomes too high. For something like LASIK, yes, they will because it is relatively elastic. For more pressing concerns, they won't and that's why we can't just let the free market sort itself out. I take it, then, that you disagree with Greg Mankiw when he states that governments can sometimes improve market efficiency. I agree with him and this is particularly true of many health care markets.
You keep trying to argue that most of healthcare is like dialysis vice Lasik. The big reality that you don't account for is that most healthcare is not paid for by the consumer, which impedes their ability to choose alternatives based on cost. Lasik is one way to deal with improving eyesight and since it isn't covered by insurance it must compete as a discretionary expenditure. And your argument fails if we start discussing the health implications of life style choices.
Greg Mankiw when he states that governments can sometimes improve market efficiency
Except of course you treat this as if it were holy writ, not as a case by case examination. Mankiw is also saying that it is the exception, not the rule - of course you disagree with him about that.
which impedes their ability to choose alternatives based on cost.
Those alternatives will likely collude to keep prices high if there is relative inelasticity. As you are so fond of saying, it has happened over and over again in the past.
Those alternatives will likely collude to keep prices high if there is relative inelasticity.
As in the case of Lasik?
You attempt to portray everything in the entire span of health care as though it is dialysis, and all providers as a cabal of blood-thirsty pirates. There is a great deal more diversity than you allow for, which I think you realize and that is why you cling to tightly to the most extreme example you can.
Think about all of the health problems people have. Now think about how whiny people are and tell me again who is going to leave the market and who isn't when the price goes up.
I'll give you this, though. I think we should try it on large scale and see what happens. You obviously need to see the human misery firsthand in order to unfuck yourself from your ideology.
Think about all of the health problems people have.
Think about how many are life style decision related?
I don't give a fuck about how many whiny people there are - they aren't my responsibility or concern, at least if they are adults. If the govt is to be a permanent parent so that little pukes like you don't have to grow up, or listen to the whiny little shits - then we are fucked beyond all redemption.
they aren't my responsibility or concern, at least if they are adults.
Ah, but they are, my dear juris. And whether you want to admit it or not, their actions have a direct effect on your life. Sorry, but that's what happens when you live with grown ups in a society.
Fuck you they are. You can take your Christian duty to your brother and shove it up your ass until your ass bleeds if you think you can jam it down my throat. Funny how your panties get so twisted when your fellow Christians push some part of their dogma (that you disagree with) at the country. As you are so fond of noting this country was not founded as a Christian nation; and imposing charity is not one of Congress' enumerated powers.
Sorry, but that's what happens when you live with grown ups in a society.
Now that is ironic considering that you are insisting that adults should be treated like children by the govt - that the govt should decide what is best, just like mommy or daddy.
Fuck you they are. You can take your Christian duty to your brother
Who said anything about Christian duty? I'm talking about the fundamental facts about society. If someone makes a choice to treat their bodies like shit and then they go into the hospital, it affects you whether you like it or not. Unless you live on a island, you are part of the collective:)
I've got a better idea. Rather than be obligated to treat those who treated their bodies like shit all their lives and now expect collectivized health care to treat them, that sounds like a most excellent reason to ditch the whole false idea of collective health care in the first place. Otherwise, in the name of saving money for the collective, all will be required to eat right, exercise right, no vices, et cetera. Just because Mark is cognitively unable to imagine any other way of doing things doesn't mean they don't exist.
Government involvement or no government involvement, we live in a collective, Larry. Even if everything was privately run, decisions made by others directly affect your life. Grow up.
I'm talking about the fundamental facts about society.
You really are so stupid that you don't even realize you are preaching some basic Christian belief?
it affects you whether you like it or not.
Only to the extent that the federal govt decreed that no one be turned away from emergency services. How has that worked out? Better than before the law? I say let's go back to having heavy equipment scooping up the dead off the streets - just like the old days... oh wait, we didn't have to do that, did we? You and your stupid, emotional fantasies.
We live in a society. That society can be organized to enhance liberty or reduce it. You are dedicated to reducing freedom so that your stupidity is merely average instead of being exceptional.
If someone makes a choice to treat their bodies like shit and then they go into the hospital, it affects you whether you like it or not.
Ah yes, the old "the government must interfere in the free market to fix X problem" - without recognizing that X problem is the result of earlier government intervention in the free market.
Larry, if someone refuses medical care and/or insurance coverage and then goes in to the ER to get care, do your insurance rates go up? Regardless of government involvement, what someone else does affects you. If you don't like it, go live by yourself somewhere.
Regardless of government involvement, what someone else does affects you.
Seriously, does it not occur to you that you are excusing stupidity and irresponsibility. That when you do that, you are subsidizing it and thus creating more of it?
I know this is a tough thing for such a (ahem) rugged individualist to hear but this is what grown ups have to do in a society with other people, juris.
You know, NMN, being a Christian means you are part of a collective. In fact, you've made it a point several times on here to preach collectivization in terms of spirituality. Everyone has to think the same way, right? Otherwise, they're going to hell. But you can help them and illustrate the "error" of their ways.
Isn't it "funny" how Mark jumps to a new topic/attack whenever he's asked to justify a bald assertion he's made? Is this going to be another question you need to be harassed about?
Why would an uninsured person going to the ER cause insurance rates to go up?
33 comments:
It is important to realize that price-elasticity of demand is not necessarily constant over all price ranges. The linear demand curve in the accompanying diagram illustrates that changes in price also change the elasticity: the price elasticity is different at every point on the curve.
It comes down to the central question of whether or not you think people will leave a health care market if the price becomes too high. For something like LASIK, yes, they will because it is relatively elastic. For more pressing concerns, they won't and that's why we can't just let the free market sort itself out. I take it, then, that you disagree with Greg Mankiw when he states that governments can sometimes improve market efficiency. I agree with him and this is particularly true of many health care markets.
You keep trying to argue that most of healthcare is like dialysis vice Lasik. The big reality that you don't account for is that most healthcare is not paid for by the consumer, which impedes their ability to choose alternatives based on cost. Lasik is one way to deal with improving eyesight and since it isn't covered by insurance it must compete as a discretionary expenditure. And your argument fails if we start discussing the health implications of life style choices.
Greg Mankiw when he states that governments can sometimes improve market efficiency
Except of course you treat this as if it were holy writ, not as a case by case examination. Mankiw is also saying that it is the exception, not the rule - of course you disagree with him about that.
which impedes their ability to choose alternatives based on cost.
Those alternatives will likely collude to keep prices high if there is relative inelasticity. As you are so fond of saying, it has happened over and over again in the past.
Those alternatives will likely collude to keep prices high if there is relative inelasticity.
As in the case of Lasik?
You attempt to portray everything in the entire span of health care as though it is dialysis, and all providers as a cabal of blood-thirsty pirates. There is a great deal more diversity than you allow for, which I think you realize and that is why you cling to tightly to the most extreme example you can.
As in the case of Lasik?
Lasik has relatively elastic demand.
Think about all of the health problems people have. Now think about how whiny people are and tell me again who is going to leave the market and who isn't when the price goes up.
I'll give you this, though. I think we should try it on large scale and see what happens. You obviously need to see the human misery firsthand in order to unfuck yourself from your ideology.
Think about all of the health problems people have.
Think about how many are life style decision related?
I don't give a fuck about how many whiny people there are - they aren't my responsibility or concern, at least if they are adults. If the govt is to be a permanent parent so that little pukes like you don't have to grow up, or listen to the whiny little shits - then we are fucked beyond all redemption.
they aren't my responsibility or concern, at least if they are adults.
Ah, but they are, my dear juris. And whether you want to admit it or not, their actions have a direct effect on your life. Sorry, but that's what happens when you live with grown ups in a society.
Ah, but they are, my dear juris
Fuck you they are. You can take your Christian duty to your brother and shove it up your ass until your ass bleeds if you think you can jam it down my throat. Funny how your panties get so twisted when your fellow Christians push some part of their dogma (that you disagree with) at the country. As you are so fond of noting this country was not founded as a Christian nation; and imposing charity is not one of Congress' enumerated powers.
Sorry, but that's what happens when you live with grown ups in a society.
Now that is ironic considering that you are insisting that adults should be treated like children by the govt - that the govt should decide what is best, just like mommy or daddy.
Fuck you they are. You can take your Christian duty to your brother
Who said anything about Christian duty? I'm talking about the fundamental facts about society. If someone makes a choice to treat their bodies like shit and then they go into the hospital, it affects you whether you like it or not. Unless you live on a island, you are part of the collective:)
I've got a better idea. Rather than be obligated to treat those who treated their bodies like shit all their lives and now expect collectivized health care to treat them, that sounds like a most excellent reason to ditch the whole false idea of collective health care in the first place. Otherwise, in the name of saving money for the collective, all will be required to eat right, exercise right, no vices, et cetera. Just because Mark is cognitively unable to imagine any other way of doing things doesn't mean they don't exist.
Government involvement or no government involvement, we live in a collective, Larry. Even if everything was privately run, decisions made by others directly affect your life. Grow up.
I'm talking about the fundamental facts about society.
You really are so stupid that you don't even realize you are preaching some basic Christian belief?
it affects you whether you like it or not.
Only to the extent that the federal govt decreed that no one be turned away from emergency services. How has that worked out? Better than before the law? I say let's go back to having heavy equipment scooping up the dead off the streets - just like the old days... oh wait, we didn't have to do that, did we? You and your stupid, emotional fantasies.
we live in a collective
Ponyshit.
We live in a society. That society can be organized to enhance liberty or reduce it. You are dedicated to reducing freedom so that your stupidity is merely average instead of being exceptional.
If someone makes a choice to treat their bodies like shit and then they go into the hospital, it affects you whether you like it or not.
Ah yes, the old "the government must interfere in the free market to fix X problem" - without recognizing that X problem is the result of earlier government intervention in the free market.
Nice positive feedback loop you've got going on....
Nice positive feedback loop you've got going on....
Every govt fuck-up is an excuse for the govt to do more.
The Progressive Dream.
We don't live in a collective, Markadipshit, except in your wet dreams. Government ain't your daddy-o and I'm not your brother. Grow the fuck up.
Larry, if someone refuses medical care and/or insurance coverage and then goes in to the ER to get care, do your insurance rates go up? Regardless of government involvement, what someone else does affects you. If you don't like it, go live by yourself somewhere.
Regardless of government involvement, what someone else does affects you.
Seriously, does it not occur to you that you are excusing stupidity and irresponsibility. That when you do that, you are subsidizing it and thus creating more of it?
I know this is a tough thing for such a (ahem) rugged individualist to hear but this is what grown ups have to do in a society with other people, juris.
What is it about freedom that so frightens you M?
grown ups
Grown ups engage in charity Of Their Own Free Will.
Government or no government, NMN, you engage in charity every day regardless of your "will."
Government or no government, NMN, you engage in charity every day regardless of your "will."
Going so stupid that any response is irrelevant?
Why does freedom frighten you M? Why do you believe that everyone must be forced to be good?
Money taken by force is not "charity".
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
— 2 Corinthians 9:7
Money taken by force is not "charity".
So, when an insurance company raises its rates because someone went into the ER without insurance, what do you call that? Corporate force?
when an insurance company raises its rates
You realize you are missing a huge chunk of the chain of causality there. No, you probably don't realize that.
More's the pity.
Juris just made the exact same point I was about to make. Why would an uninsured person going to the ER cause insurance rates to go up?
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Simple questions Mark refuses to answer:
Is the Constitution law? (40 days and counting)
Is "false" equal to "truth"? (2 days and counting)
You know, NMN, being a Christian means you are part of a collective. In fact, you've made it a point several times on here to preach collectivization in terms of spirituality. Everyone has to think the same way, right? Otherwise, they're going to hell. But you can help them and illustrate the "error" of their ways.
Nope, that's not what I've said. Once again you've spouting a straw man version from the Voices In Your Head.
But rather than hopping down that bunny trail, how about explaining why you think an uninsured person going to the ER causes insurance rates to go up.
----------
Simple questions Mark refuses to answer:
Is the Constitution law? (40 days and counting)
Is "false" equal to "truth"? (2 days and counting)
As long as you aren't making your own points, all is well, eh, NMN? And now back to another psychotically obsessive comment about yours truly:)
Isn't it "funny" how Mark jumps to a new topic/attack whenever he's asked to justify a bald assertion he's made? Is this going to be another question you need to be harassed about?
Why would an uninsured person going to the ER cause insurance rates to go up?
----------
Simple questions Mark refuses to answer:
Is the Constitution law? (40 days and counting)
Is "false" equal to "truth"? (2 days and counting)
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