In too many of them, not enough of what they should be doing. You do realize that the vast majority of the people you like to mock for poorly spelled signs are the products of public schools. We like to mock the leftist morons and their idiot signs, but at least we recognize how they got that way.
What I did know was that my 9th grader didn’t know how to do proofs. I looked through his textbook, one of whose authors was a recent president of NCTM, and I was surprised to find very few proofs of anything. More troubling, most theorems in the book were stated as postulates–that is, propositions stated without proof–and students were told to memorize them. The problems at the end of the chapter required students to do only a few simple proofs.
Proofs in geometry class have been a mainstay of mathematics. In fact, proofs were always considered an essential part of high school geometry, not only because of their importance in higher math, but because learning the rules of logical argument and reasoning has applications in science, law, political science, and writing. To see proofs being shortchanged in a geometry textbook was shocking.
What he is pointing out here is that the schools have removed the teaching of logic in any form from the part of the curriculum where it is a vital and necessary part of the topic.
Furthermore, your constant use of logical fallacies is exhibit A of schools teaching the opposite of logic.
In short, government schools are making students stupid by actively suppressing their ability to use logic.
And just as troubling is that Mark not only continues to use logical fallacies, but that he cannot understand how the use of such fallacies renders his arguments invalid. That's not 'winning the argument', it's 'not presenting a valid argument to begin with'.
Well, lets see. He starts off by saying that he's not a math teacher. So, he's not really an authority on "government" schools. In addition, this article is 2005 and some of his data is from 17 years ago. Have anything more current?
Being someone who employs logic, you should have the empirical evidence to support your claim. This would involve multiple, peer reviewed sources and data not a sweeping claim with one source.
Oh, and logic is not defined as a discipline that eventually leads one to a right wing ideology.
GD, I'd like to see you guys respond to my points with facts and evidence as opposed to a critique of yours truly. It's lazy and is illustrative of the fact that you don't really have much in the way of...well... anything,
And there go the excuses again. "Any reason to explain away what I refuse to believe is sufficient, no matter how bad it is."
Bottom line. This is a PROFESSIONAL mathematician. In other words, someone who gets paid for their math skills, and does it all day long. He knows what is necessary/required/critical/central/essential for math. When he looks at a textbook and notes the absence of something essential for math, it's not because he's too stupid to understand math. He knows for sure that it's necessary and that it is missing.
(Note also, most professional mathematicians agree with him.)
Also note that the changes made to LA School District's math curriculum that Kevin posted about happened THIS YEARand they're using the National Core Teaching Methods standard as the justification for that change. And the fucking annoying thing about this is YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS, but you ask for "anything more current"!!! That is TEXTBOOK willful ignorance!
Correction: NCTM is not "National Core Teaching Methods" as I incorrectly stated. It actually stands for "National Council of Teachers of Mathematics". My bad.
government schools are making students stupid by actively suppressing their ability to use logic.
Fine. Back it up. You're a "scientist," right? A man of logic? Then let's see your peer reviewed research and evidence. What is a "government" school? Is that all of them? There are just shy of 100,000 schools in the United States. That's hundreds of school districts. Kevin's example is a grand total of 1 and from that it is now happening everywhere?
Further, your accusation that this is somehow the government's fault is completely ridiculous. I have repeatedly asked you, Kevin, and the others to go into a school and spend a week there (this would be called field research) and report back your findings. Thus far, you have refused. Scientific method my ass.
There are indeed many problems with education today. There were problems in the past and there will be problems in the future. The causes of these problems are many and varied but they all start with the parents. Public officials can't tell private citizens what to do with their lives. We have to work with the clay that we have when they show up at the door and a very large number of them can't pay attention to anything for more than 2 minutes. Their behavior, particularly at the junior high level, is atrocious. Many teachers spend a good chunk of their classes redirecting and disciplining children. And then you guys come along and blame us for being socialists? That's a load of shit.
If you are serious about solving our nation's education problems, start thinking at the macro level. What is it about culture that needs to be fixed?
The "Who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' camera?" response. Nothing is valid, no matter what the evidence for it is, unless it squares with the conclusions he's already jumped to.
I feel honored to have so many standard responses to your eternal and only one...one, btw, that is devoid of the evidence part of your high level of skill in scientific reasoning.
I'm still waiting for you evidence and research to support your claim about government schools. You are going to need more than one link and one school district (LA) to support your theory. There are several hundred school districts in the country. How many are not teaching logic?
And I still think it's funny that you believe that if kids learned "logic," then somehow they'd all magically be conservative.
Oh, I am ANXIOUS to respond to your demand. But we need to have some basic common ground before my response will make any sense. Thus, my question, which is so freakin' simple and obvious that its answer should be of the "well, duh" variety:
Is "false" equal to "truth"?
Yet you refuse to answer a question which we should both be able to agree on. Why is that?
So how about it, Mark? Can we start from the most basic of agreements? Can you answer the question?
Oh, I am ANXIOUS to respond to your demand. But we need to have some basic common ground before my response will make any sense.
Ah, yes, the ol' "common ground" dodge again. I know it well:) Seems to me that someone is avoiding doing their work in the hopes of keeping the attention on me. Not gonna happen, dude. Take all the time you need. I can't wait to see the scientific method and critical thinking in action!
In your field research (and I'm assuming that you will be doing field research given that you are going to adhere to the scientific method and all), I suggest some time in a couple different junior highs. Your hypothesis suggests that government schools are lessening math requirements and not teaching logic so you're going to need a couple different groups to compare your results. What do they call those groups again? As you say, I don't know anything about the scientific method so you're going to have to help me out on the particulars.
I have another idea. Why don't you volunteer to be guest speaker at your local school and do a lecture on logic? Every school is always looking for volunteers to help out. Try it first on those 8th graders that you and Kevin feel are being coddled. You'll have about 90 seconds to get your point across to them in an interesting way otherwise, they're gone. Report your findings here.
(That's the only explanation that makes sense given how hard you're running from the question.
Yes, that's it! You've discovered me!! I'm just that scared of your questions. Now what? Oh, right...actually supporting your statement with the (ahem) scientific method. How many junior highs are you going to use for your field research?
Oh, and as long as we are on the subject of unanswered questions, how many times have you avoided this one?
There is an easy way to test who is the one being honest and open minded and who is the one who is basically brainwashed. I'm willing to admit that I'm not perfect. Some of my ideas might not work. Are you willing to admit the same thing? Or you always right?
I DID answer that question, by pointing out that I made (and corrected) a mistake in this very thread!
As I said previously, that was a minor mistake. I'm talking about critical thinking regarding major policy points in your ideology. Reality has smacked in the face at several points in history, especially of late and you refuse to change. Someone who adheres to the scientific method of removing bias and being completely impartial should be able to be evaluative and critical of their ideology, no? So, let's here a few points. I've been critical of the left for being naive regarding international security and completely tone deaf on things like nuclear power. Liberalism failed to predict the end of the Cold War and banning guns, while completely Constitutional, won't solve the problem of gun violence in this country.
So, let's here [sic] a few points. I've been critical of the left for… Liberalism failed to predict…
Nothing there about YOU admitting YOU were wrong about anything. Take the log out of YOUR own eye, hypocrite. Only then can you see clearly to take the speck out of mine.
27 comments:
Given what government schools have been doing to children, the irony of this graphic once again pegs the meter.
Government schools...uh...huh? And what exactly are they doing?
In too many of them, not enough of what they should be doing. You do realize that the vast majority of the people you like to mock for poorly spelled signs are the products of public schools. We like to mock the leftist morons and their idiot signs, but at least we recognize how they got that way.
From An A-Maze-ing Approach to Math Education
What I did know was that my 9th grader didn’t know how to do proofs.
I looked through his textbook, one of whose authors was a recent president of NCTM, and I was surprised to find very few proofs of anything. More troubling, most theorems in the book were stated as postulates–that is, propositions stated without proof–and students were told to memorize them. The problems at the end of the chapter required students to do only a few simple proofs.
Proofs in geometry class have been a mainstay of mathematics. In fact, proofs were always considered an essential part of high school geometry, not only because of their importance in higher math, but because learning the rules of logical argument and reasoning has applications in science, law, political science, and writing. To see proofs being shortchanged in a geometry textbook was shocking.
What he is pointing out here is that the schools have removed the teaching of logic in any form from the part of the curriculum where it is a vital and necessary part of the topic.
Furthermore, your constant use of logical fallacies is exhibit A of schools teaching the opposite of logic.
In short, government schools are making students stupid by actively suppressing their ability to use logic.
And just as troubling is that Mark not only continues to use logical fallacies, but that he cannot understand how the use of such fallacies renders his arguments invalid. That's not 'winning the argument', it's 'not presenting a valid argument to begin with'.
Well, lets see. He starts off by saying that he's not a math teacher. So, he's not really an authority on "government" schools. In addition, this article is 2005 and some of his data is from 17 years ago. Have anything more current?
Being someone who employs logic, you should have the empirical evidence to support your claim. This would involve multiple, peer reviewed sources and data not a sweeping claim with one source.
Oh, and logic is not defined as a discipline that eventually leads one to a right wing ideology.
GD, I'd like to see you guys respond to my points with facts and evidence as opposed to a critique of yours truly. It's lazy and is illustrative of the fact that you don't really have much in the way of...well... anything,
And there go the excuses again. "Any reason to explain away what I refuse to believe is sufficient, no matter how bad it is."
Bottom line. This is a PROFESSIONAL mathematician. In other words, someone who gets paid for their math skills, and does it all day long. He knows what is necessary/required/critical/central/essential for math. When he looks at a textbook and notes the absence of something essential for math, it's not because he's too stupid to understand math. He knows for sure that it's necessary and that it is missing.
(Note also, most professional mathematicians agree with him.)
Also note that the changes made to LA School District's math curriculum that Kevin posted about happened THIS YEAR and they're using the National Core Teaching Methods standard as the justification for that change. And the fucking annoying thing about this is YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS, but you ask for "anything more current"!!! That is TEXTBOOK willful ignorance!
You really, really are a special kind of stupid.
Correction: NCTM is not "National Core Teaching Methods" as I incorrectly stated. It actually stands for "National Council of Teachers of Mathematics". My bad.
The NCTM that Mr. Garelick tears to shreds in his piece is part of a coalition behind the Common Core Standards that LA District adopted to lower their math standards even further.
Somebody: two plus two equals four.
Mark: no. Two plus two equals purple. Therefore pie.
S: that does not make any sense.
Mark: you're just trying to win the argument.
Stop doing that and you'd be amazed at how quickly focus would be on logical argument rather than your vigorously asserted gobblygook.
NMN, you made the following statement
government schools are making students stupid by actively suppressing their ability to use logic.
Fine. Back it up. You're a "scientist," right? A man of logic? Then let's see your peer reviewed research and evidence. What is a "government" school? Is that all of them? There are just shy of 100,000 schools in the United States. That's hundreds of school districts. Kevin's example is a grand total of 1 and from that it is now happening everywhere?
Further, your accusation that this is somehow the government's fault is completely ridiculous. I have repeatedly asked you, Kevin, and the others to go into a school and spend a week there (this would be called field research) and report back your findings. Thus far, you have refused. Scientific method my ass.
There are indeed many problems with education today. There were problems in the past and there will be problems in the future. The causes of these problems are many and varied but they all start with the parents. Public officials can't tell private citizens what to do with their lives. We have to work with the clay that we have when they show up at the door and a very large number of them can't pay attention to anything for more than 2 minutes. Their behavior, particularly at the junior high level, is atrocious. Many teachers spend a good chunk of their classes redirecting and disciplining children. And then you guys come along and blame us for being socialists? That's a load of shit.
If you are serious about solving our nation's education problems, start thinking at the macro level. What is it about culture that needs to be fixed?
Standard Response #7
The "Who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' camera?" response. Nothing is valid, no matter what the evidence for it is, unless it squares with the conclusions he's already jumped to.
I feel honored to have so many standard responses to your eternal and only one...one, btw, that is devoid of the evidence part of your high level of skill in scientific reasoning.
I will repeat this question here, because this thread is the example that backs it up:
Mark, is "false" equal to "truth"?
I'm still waiting for you evidence and research to support your claim about government schools. You are going to need more than one link and one school district (LA) to support your theory. There are several hundred school districts in the country. How many are not teaching logic?
And I still think it's funny that you believe that if kids learned "logic," then somehow they'd all magically be conservative.
Oh, I am ANXIOUS to respond to your demand. But we need to have some basic common ground before my response will make any sense. Thus, my question, which is so freakin' simple and obvious that its answer should be of the "well, duh" variety:
Is "false" equal to "truth"?
Yet you refuse to answer a question which we should both be able to agree on. Why is that?
So how about it, Mark? Can we start from the most basic of agreements? Can you answer the question?
Oh, I am ANXIOUS to respond to your demand. But we need to have some basic common ground before my response will make any sense.
Ah, yes, the ol' "common ground" dodge again. I know it well:) Seems to me that someone is avoiding doing their work in the hopes of keeping the attention on me. Not gonna happen, dude. Take all the time you need. I can't wait to see the scientific method and critical thinking in action!
So why won't you answer the question, Mark? Is it that you think "false" is equal to "truth"? It sure seems like it.
In your field research (and I'm assuming that you will be doing field research given that you are going to adhere to the scientific method and all), I suggest some time in a couple different junior highs. Your hypothesis suggests that government schools are lessening math requirements and not teaching logic so you're going to need a couple different groups to compare your results. What do they call those groups again? As you say, I don't know anything about the scientific method so you're going to have to help me out on the particulars.
I have another idea. Why don't you volunteer to be guest speaker at your local school and do a lecture on logic? Every school is always looking for volunteers to help out. Try it first on those 8th graders that you and Kevin feel are being coddled. You'll have about 90 seconds to get your point across to them in an interesting way otherwise, they're gone. Report your findings here.
Well, apparently you do think "false" equals "truth". (That's the only explanation that makes sense given how hard you're running from the question.)
It's impossible to explain anything to someone who does not speak the same language.
(That's the only explanation that makes sense given how hard you're running from the question.
Yes, that's it! You've discovered me!! I'm just that scared of your questions. Now what? Oh, right...actually supporting your statement with the (ahem) scientific method. How many junior highs are you going to use for your field research?
Is "false" equal to "truth"?
(Apparently Mark refuses to answer the second question because he does think they're equal.)
How many junior highs are you going to use for your field research?
Oh, and as long as we are on the subject of unanswered questions, how many times have you avoided this one?
There is an easy way to test who is the one being honest and open minded and who is the one who is basically brainwashed. I'm willing to admit that I'm not perfect. Some of my ideas might not work. Are you willing to admit the same thing? Or you always right?
I DID answer that question, by pointing out that I made (and corrected) a mistake in this very thread!
Your reply:
That's a minor mistake. I'm talking about bigger issues and fundamental ideology.
Wait. What was it you said? Oh yeah:
I'm willing to admit that I'm not perfect.
You're a hypocrite. Take the log out of your own eye. You never, ever, EVER admit mistakes, not even little ones.
----------
Simple questions Mark refuses to answer:
Is the Constitution law?
Is "false" equal to "truth"?
I DID answer that question, by pointing out that I made (and corrected) a mistake in this very thread!
As I said previously, that was a minor mistake. I'm talking about critical thinking regarding major policy points in your ideology. Reality has smacked in the face at several points in history, especially of late and you refuse to change. Someone who adheres to the scientific method of removing bias and being completely impartial should be able to be evaluative and critical of their ideology, no? So, let's here a few points. I've been critical of the left for being naive regarding international security and completely tone deaf on things like nuclear power. Liberalism failed to predict the end of the Cold War and banning guns, while completely Constitutional, won't solve the problem of gun violence in this country.
Your turn.
So, let's here [sic] a few points. I've been critical of the left for… Liberalism failed to predict…
Nothing there about YOU admitting YOU were wrong about anything. Take the log out of YOUR own eye, hypocrite. Only then can you see clearly to take the speck out of mine.
----------
Simple questions Mark refuses to answer:
Is the Constitution law? (40 days and counting)
Is "false" equal to "truth"? (2 days and counting)
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