Contributors

Monday, January 10, 2011

Reflections On The Weekend

Much of my emotion regarding the shooting in Arizona is tied to Christina Green, a 9 year old girl who was one of the victims in the assassination attempt of Gabrielle Giffords. Christina was born on September 11, 2001 and had just been elected to student council. A neighbor thought it would be fun if Christina met Rep. Giffords so that is how she ended up at the Safeway. And now she is dead.

I have children so the empathy that I have for her parents cannot be put into words. As an educator, though, this hit me on another level that still leaves me gutted today. No doubt, it will stay with me forever. I encourage children like Christina every day to get involved in politics and make their voice heard regardless of their opinions. What will my message be now? I've avoided the likes of the partisan news networks for the most part but to do so now would be irresponsible. To ignore the very clear danger that I see coming from people like Glenn Beck would be catastrophic. People have said that I am trying to score political points. I am not. I am saying that same thing that Congresswoman Giffords said in March of 2010.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action."

Consequences indeed. And not just in this case. Bart Stupak resigned over these voice mails. Raul Grijalva's office in Arizona was attacked last fall. There were other events as well. 

Better yet, though, take the example of Charles Wilson. He was recently jailed in Washington State for threatening the life of Senator Pat Murray over the passage of the health care bill. From Timothy Egan's recent Times column. 

Prosecutors here in Washington State told me that the man convicted of making the threats was using language that, in some cases, came word-for-word from Glenn Beck, the Fox demagogue. Every afternoon Charles A. Wilson would sit in his living room and stuff his head with Beck, a man who spouts scary nonsense to millions. Of course, Beck didn’t make the threats or urge his followers to do so.

But it was Beck who said “the war is just beginning,” after the health care bill was passed. And it was Beck who re-introduced the paranoid and racist rants of a 1950s-era John Birch Society supporter, W. Cleon Skousen, who said a one-world government cabal was plotting a takeover

In the case of Jared Loughner, we also have an anti government type who personalized his anger in the from of Congresswoman Giffords. Her "personal slight" towards him by responding to a question in Spanish set him on his path to that Safeway last Saturday. It is my contention that someone as clearly mentally disturbed as Loughner was enabled by what passes for normal discourse from the likes of people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. By saying crazy shit, it makes the crazies feel like they are right at home.

So what do I want to see happen? This.

The best thing for Sarah Palin to do at this point (and, quite frankly, if she were to do this I'd just about fall on the floor in shock and surprise) would be to issue a statement fessing up to the misguided and inflammatory gun imagery that she has used in political contexts, promise to refrain from doing so in the future, and shut the fuck up for awhile, out of respect for the victims of this senseless tragedy.

Thankfully, I think we are going to see that. Palin may not be as forthright as this but she may not have a choice. This is one of those events that will leave a deep mark on our country for a long time. To use crosshairs, wish for the death or torture of Democrats, or spout any sort of violent, anti government nonsense is going to be met with disgust.

It's absolutely disgusting that it took the death of Christina Green and the other victims to make it happen.

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

Turns out that he's a Bush hater and a 9/11 Truther.

So now should we discuss the responsibility of

Code Pink
MoveOn.org
ACORN
The Democrat Party
The Obama Administration

for these murders? By the standards you've been using so far, their "connection" is inescapable, is it not? Obama had a Truther as a cabinet member.

Isn't 2 days of dancing on people's graves and accusing people of complicity in a murder without a single shred of evidence enough?

Speaking Truth said...

I think a comment at another site summed it up perfectly:

> The left’s reaction to this dreadful incident makes my hair stand on end. You wonder where such hyperpartisanship is going to lead this country. A hundred and fifty years ago, it led it into a conflagration.

Is that what you're trying to accomplish, M? Sure seems like it to me.

Haplo9 said...

Doubling down now I see.

> shut the fuck up for awhile, out of respect for the victims of this senseless tragedy.

That would have been good advice for you. Too late now.

blk said...

Just imagine how the right would react if any three-term Republican congressman had been shot by Jared Loughner.

You would hear no end of recriminations about how the liberal media was responsible for this, and the liberal elites had drummed up all this hatred against Republicans, and conspiracies from the very highest levels of government.

Look at the huge number of right-wing conspiracy theories regarding Obama, Kenya, the Tides Foundation, Soros, the census, and on and on. And remember Vince Foster?

And the absolute worst thing that Obama has done is sign a health-care bill that provides better medical coverage paid for by a mechanism that Mitt Romney used in Massachusetts.

Speaking Truth said...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/kilborn-cbs-target-bush-0

Anonymous said...

I couldn't be any happier that I've paid no attention to this site for the last several days.

Markadelphia - 1

Shame - Zero.

I'll continue to ignore 'here', at least until the victims are buried.

dw

Damn Teabaggers said...

Just imagine how the right would react if any three-term Republican congressman had been shot by Jared Loughner.

You obviously already have. Further, you've obviously decided that blood libel is justified, based on those imaginings.

Last in line said...

Since I am viewed as somewhat sensible by a few lefties on here, and I'm the only conservative that jeff c will talk to on here, maybe I'll post my thoughts on what I see on this blog. Don't have much time though, our national sales meeting is this week.

I saw the comment Mark left "...what I am trying to do which is define and solve the problem.".

You've been trying to "solve" this problem for years now. It does seem like you are using these deaths to further your agenda. I'm noticing a huge difference in the reactions again. All this on a blog that didn't devote one word to...

1. The Fort Hood shootings (my gf's nice lives on fort hood so yeah, I knew someone down there too).

or

2. Shahzads attempted bombing of Times Square last year.

Now this tragedy happens and it is wall to wall coverage on here. It is clear that there are some tragedies that can be used to further an agenda and other tragedies or even incidents that are not even worthy of comment on here. Why the different reactions? Is it because some incidents fit the narrative you want to put out there and others don't?

Did any of you see the cover of the New York Post on Saturday? Go check it out.

It does make the head tilt a little to see Mark asking people to "STFU for a while out of respect for the victims" while, at the same time, blogging at double speed blaming all of this on the Right. So is it only one side of the political spectrum has to STFU?

I know lots of people on here have a fondness for posting links and lots of links to internet websites have been posted lately. I see links to right wing rhetoric and I see links to left wing websites engaging in the very same thing that is being denounced. I guess I'm waiting for the link that ties the shooter to Beck, Palin, et all, or even casually mentions that he was a fan of them. Until we get that link, the evidence is pretty flimsy thus far. Being a fan of The Communist Manifesto, burning a flag, smoking pot, and hating religion really aren't behaviors associated with "the right" nowadays. I'm sensing this shooter was another Stack-type individual who hated everybody.

jeff c. said...

Overall, a very sensible post once again from last in line. Refreshing after a series of completely fucking brain dead ones. I disagree with the need for a smoking gun. Likely there will never be something found that will definitely link Loughner to right wingers. That doesn't matter.

Mark's point is about the overall toxic climate and how that has largely been driven by the right. If anyone should be shameful, dw, it's the people in positions of leadership and power that have said these things over and over again with no consequences. That's not going to happen any more. That is a good thing and that, I think, is what Mark is saying.

blk is, as always, right on the money.

Angela said...

Still more denial. Would it kill any of you to say to yourselves, "Hmm....maybe Mark is right about this and it's time to take folks like Beck and Palin to the mat for saying crap like this." You all look terribly insecure when all of your comments point to liberal examples of what you perceive to be the same thing. If you thought about this more clearly and stop trying to win the argument with Mark, you would see what is trying to say.

Last in line said...

In real life, I'm not that sensible. I'm really a hateful, bigoted capitalist jerk.

Jeff, evidence doesn't matter? a part of me wants to agree that there will never be something found...but my reason why may be different than yours. I speculate that if there was a connection between the shooted and beck/Palin, we would have seen it by now. The connection simply may not exist but I know that isn't going to stop the left.

Angela, I question Mark telling people to STFU about the whole incident out of respect for the people involved while he is blogging at double speed - that isn't insecurity on my part - that's the reality going on here.

blk was right? A post with sentences starting with "Just imagine how the right would react...", "You would hear no end...", etc. He and Mark had posts dripping with speculation of "how the right would react" and having us debate their hypotheticals when we were discussing Joseph Stack on here and I called them on that then too.

Evidence does matter folks.

Speaking Truth said...

Last,

Well said.

It appears that first and foremost, this guy was a paranoid schizophrenic. People who were forced to spend time with him expected him to snap, including one friend who knew of his obsession with Gifford (from well before Sarah Palin came onto the national scene) and realized that he had shot her even before the shooter had been identified.

http://bit.ly/gH2bAI

http://bit.ly/hNFIwm

> That doesn't matter.

And they wonder why we don't take their assertions seriously…

What bugs me the most about this is that the left is so damn intent on tarring the right that they can't shut up and let everyone morn for the victims properly. Talk about toxic!!

Mark Ward said...

It doesn't matter that this started before Palin came on the scene. It's true we may never know exactly what sent him over but do you honestly think that the Palin crosshairs and all the rest didn't figure in AT ALL? He didn't live in a vacuum for pete's sake. Read Nikto's post today...9 year olds, for crying out loud!

Speaking Truth said...

Yeah, can't have a few facts getting in the way of "The Narrative" now, can we Marxy.

We get it. You hate conservatives. Nothing is going to change your mine. You refuse to talk with us, sticking only to talking at us.

Just give it a rest already.

Oh, and one more thing:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,”
— Jesus, Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5:43-44

blk said...

The thing so many commenters neglect to mention is that many Tea Party boosters and other arch-conservatives in this country perceive the Democrats and Republicans as two sides of the same coin.

Some of them lump together Bush, Kennedy, Obama, McCain, Dole, etc., because they are all "illegal immigrant loving" traitors.

Many Tea Partiers are deathly afraid that the new Republican majority will stab them in the back and continue business as usual.

Many isolationist conservatives absolutely despised the Bushes because of their nation-building and involvement with the "New World Order" during both Iraq wars.

So just because someone hates Bush and Republicans in general doesn't mean they're liberal. It could just mean that they're even further to the right of Bush and the Republican establishment. The local Democrat may have pressed a personal hot button and was an easy target of opportunity.

We just don't know yet.

GuardDuck said...

Because 'even further to the right' people always love to read the communist manifesto?

Mark Ward said...

ST-No, I don't. What I hate is the anger, hate and rage directed towards liberals by conservatives. I'm sick of it and now it's clearly gone too far. Maybe this will be it but I'm cynical so I doubt it.

In all honesty, I have been talking to you and all I get back are personal insults. Have I ever personally insulted you or called you stupid? If I have, then I was wrong to do so but I don't think I have. Take a look at what has been written about me...seriously!

What I am after here is reflection. You are still resisting.

Speaking Truth said...

> Have I ever personally insulted you or called you stupid?

How 'bout "racist" for starters? You just did it again in the comments to Nikto's thread. And your drumbeat for the last couple of days has all boiled down to calling every single conservative "evil", and that includes me.

In short, yes, you have. Repeatedly. Nearly every day for the past 4 years.

Larry said...

You've got to be shitting me, Mark. Reflection? You're fucking waving the bloody shirt. Crop/registration marks (http://www.clker.com/clipart-2827.html) on a map? Just terrible. Actual fucking crosshairs from a rifle scope on a picture of a Republican candidate
(http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2011/01/09/sarah-palin-democrats-forget-they-put-jd-hayworth-in-crosshairs/)? Irrelevant, I guess.

Actually, though, I think you're right about one thing. Sarah Palin does promote hatred and rage in the mentally unstable -- we've all witnessed how you and Nikto start frothing at the mouth every time you think about her.

Until you have a single piece of evidence that Palin influenced this psychopath at all, why don't you STFU about her? Palin seems at this point to have had a lot less influence on Loughner than Jodie Foster did with causing Reagan to be shot, which is to say none at fucking all. Loughner's just a fucking loon, and so are those trying to smear Palin and the Right with his actions.

exe said...

Can't think of anything unless it's concrete, eh Larry? Here's a big influence on Loughner here.

http://gawker.com/5729241/why-was-jared-loughner-obsessed-with-grammar

"So who is David Wynn Miller? According to Miller himself, he is a "Plenipotentiary-Judge" (and the King of Hawaii); he's also a 62-year-old former tool-and-die maker from Milwaukee. Miller's been selling his particular (and particularly bizarre) strain of the right-wing anti-tax "sovereign citizen" movement/conspiracy for years now, and gotten more than a few people thrown in jail for trying to use his theories."

Notice the word "right wing" in there.

So, I guess it's just cool with you if Palin says all those things along with all of the other quotes and examples Mark has put up here in the last few days. A mentally unstable would look at those things that Palin and others say and probably go "Nah, that would be nuts! I guess I'll just stay home and watch Family Guy."

What's mentally unstable is the thought that there is no connection at all!

Larry said...

exe, that is one guy's theory that one loon's idiot theories influenced another loon to obsess about grammar. Why, that's practically proof positive that Palin virtually put the gun in his hands! No doubt via US Postal Service mind control programs by government-controlled grammar! Of course! That's so fucking obvious now. Thank you for providing such concrete proof in support of Mark's and Nikto's depraved smear campaign.

Sheesh.

6Kings said...

Exe, are you and the other lefty loons playing 6 degrees of separation or what?

That is one of the most obscure and stretches discussed yet. How desperate are you?!

Damn Teabaggers said...

In all honesty, I have been talking to you and all I get back are personal insults. Have I ever personally insulted you or called you stupid?

You've spent the last 3 days doing absolutely nothing but accusing every conservative you know of complicity in a multiple murder.

I guess that doesn't count, huh?

Tess said...

You mean the post which was exclusively quotes from right wing pundits? Mark's right. He repeats back to you what right wingers say and then you don't like it. I was also under the impression that fully automatic weapons were illegal. How is it that a GOP rally for Jesse Kelly was allowed to have one to fire?

Damn Teabaggers said...

In all honesty, I have been talking to you and all I get back are personal insults. Have I ever personally insulted you or called you stupid?

FUCK. YOU.

I'd rather you had. No, you never made it personal, you made it impersonal. You have accused me of complicity in a murder, and called me a racist and a hatemonger, based on things said and done by people neither you or I have ever met, without knowing our caring what the facts are. And it really had nothing to do with me at all. I'm an accomplice to a murder and a racist hatemonger, basically because you hate Sarah Palin and Jared Loughner is a nutbag, and that's all you need.

You remind me more than anyone else I have ever met of the local KKK head that used to live down the street when I was a kid.

Speaking Truth said...

Tess, You mean that post with quotes which appear to be taken out of context to distort what they were saying, with no references to verify them or their context, and where Mark ignored a request for the sources? That post?

I've read The Smallest Minority long enough to know that no one has said "We are past the time for Reasoned Discourse" as meaning it's time to start attacking leftists. Therefore, I question the rest of the quotes too.

So if Mark's "quotes" have the same meaning within their context, then I want to condemn them too, but not without being able to verify that context. So Tess, maybe you can help prove your point by helping to push Mark to provide access to the full statements, in context. That means links.

Last in line said...

The GOP has a different set of laws for themselves only...they are exempt from many laws that you have to obey Tess. Didn't you get that memo? Boo-ya!

GuardDuck said...

I was also under the impression that fully automatic weapons were illegal

Well, you're wrong. Simple as that. And the question you should ask yourself is if you were wrong on such a simple and easy to verify subject, and yet you still made assumptions based upon your incorrect information, how many other assumptions have you been wrong about?

Speaking Truth said...

> I was also under the impression that fully automatic weapons were illegal.

They're not. Fully automatic weapons manufactured prior to 1986 can be purchased if the local sheriff signs off on a Class III license.

In case you missed it, Last in line's post was pure sarcasm. That double-standard is usually the schtick of the left. (Timothy Geithner, New Black Panther vote suppression, etc.)

Mark Ward said...

DT-So you admit to me not attacking you personally but you have taken it personally? I don't get it. Funny that you bring up the KKK, though. No one pays them any attention any more. Nor the skinheads either. My ideal would be that same hitting of the delete button from our culture of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Michele Bachmann. The day they become as relevant as the skinheads will be the day you will not longer hear me talk about them. For now, though, people are following them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42406957@N04/sets/72157622225596987/

In addition, I'm going to be talking a lot about this column

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47410.html

later in the week but here is a quote for reflection (there's that R word again:))

"What we are witnessing is not just the partisan, political man-handling of a tragedy — but an outright propagandistic tactic to avoid answering questions, which are of direct relevance to the national political discourse and our broader culture. What the right is now doing is clearly manipulative. Its continuing rhetorical strategy is the essence of the telltale red herring."

And they have been doing it with issues of race...with the reality of the Bush Administration...with immigration...with climate change...and on and on.

Speaking Truth said...

So M, you're claiming it's somehow okay to attack us because you do it en masse?

Have you heard these words?

> But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.

They're good words expressing an excellent sentiment (though I wish they had been said Saturday night). I tried to say the same thing a couple of days ago in my own words. Are you now going to stop pointing fingers and retract your accusations?

juris imprudent said...

I was also under the impression that fully automatic weapons were illegal.

You are mistaken in that impression Tess, but they are very tightly regulated. There are major 'machine gun' shoots every year in Kentucky and Oregon (and probably more places).

juris imprudent said...

Guess I should read down thread, Tess's mis-perception was already corrected.

but an outright propagandistic tactic to avoid answering questions

This ought to be interesting, coming from someone who steadfastly refuses to address questions put directly to him. If you took the same course you did with Manzi, it might actually be interesting, but somehow I seriously doubt we'll see that.

Speaking Truth said...

> Are you now going to stop pointing fingers and retract your accusations?

Based on Marxaphasia's latest post, the answer is no. Instead, he is following his normal routine and doubling down on his hypocrisy.