"If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain," she said in a magazine piece. "Do something to make more money yourself -- spend less time drinking or smoking and socialising, and more time working."
Yes, that's right. All poor people just laze around all day smoking and drinking. What an idiot.
And getting to be the richest woman in the world must have been hard work., eh? Oh, wait. No, it wasn't as you inherited all your wealth. According to her, though, "There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire. Become one of those people who work hard, invest and build, and at the same time create employment and opportunities for others."
So why are people still poor?
Rinehart blamed what she described as "socialist," anti-business government policies, and urged Australian officials to lower the minimum wage and cut taxes.
Oh, right...that:) Playing the victim card again, are we?
People like Gina Rinehart fail to grasp the very simple notion that there many people who don't live for material gains. It's never bothered me that people have more money than I do. I have a great wife, wonderful children, great friends and , most importantly of all, good health in my family. Obviously, one needs a stable job and some money for a rainy day but beyond that, life is about so much more than having material things.
The failure of the Right to see that they are projecting their own perceptions of greed, envy and pettiness onto others is truly one of the finest examples of cognitive dissonance in modern times.
16 comments:
>It's never bothered me that people have more money than I do.
Er, theres a fairly obvious problem with this claim. If it were true, then why would you advocate for taking money from people who have more money than you and spending on things that you prefer? Would it be more accurate to say "It bothers Mark that people that have more money than he does don't spend it in ways that he thinks they should."?
excellent question haplo9.
Yes, it is a good question. In fact, I'd rank it right up there with "How long have you been beating your wife" or "Are you with us or with the terrorists?"
Hap, I've suddenly had an epiphany so I thank you for your comment. With previous comments like this, I would accept what you say as "fact" and discuss from there. But you know what? I don't have to anymore because the day of the ideological proclamation is over. These sorts of statements aren't honest and redirect from real solutions to real problems.
So, what you are saying doesn't exist in any sort of reality. I'd suggest rephrasing your comment to be more accurate.
Not in reality? Would you like your words to be quoted to back up everything he said ?
Well, GD, this post is about very ugly lies...poor people are lazy (drink and smoke all the time)and spend more time socializing rather than working...and that they are poor because of the government. So, feel free to comment on whether or not you think this is true.
>So, what you are saying doesn't exist in any sort of reality.
Evasive action! Evasive action!!! Uh huh. We have years of statements like this from you (paraphrasing from earlier posts):
"Rich people are fucking us over."
"Rich people should do the right things to make the economy grow, if they don't this economy is their fault."
"Rich people should pay their fair share of taxes."
followed by this:
"It's never bothered me that people have more money than I do."
Now - maybe you'd disagree with my paraphrases; I'm going off memory and searching your website is a pretty tiresome chore - if so, feel free to clarify. But why would you say that stuff if nothing bothered you about people that have more money than you? Something bothers you about people that have more money than you, because you spend an awful lot of time bitching about them. So for you to turn around and claim it has never bothered you is a bit.. rich. :)
Oh crap on a pogo stick Mark.
It's only five replies up there and you've already 'misunderstood' what was said. You keep doing that and I'm going to 'start' thinking you are doing it on purpose. But that would be dishonest, and you'd never be dishonest would you?
Let's recap.
You said "It's never bothered me that people have more money than I do."
Hap countered that statement. Not anything about poor lazy people, but that specific statement that you made. He countered it by referencing that you have been known to:
1. Advocate taking money from people who have more money than you and spending on things that you prefer.
2. Express your preference that people who have more money than you would spend that money in ways that you think they should.
You then said that Hap's counter didn't exist in 'reality'.
I replied that we could actually quote your own statements that would show you have indeed expressed such preferences and desires.
That is reality - you can't just define it as you wish.
Obviously, there are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up. This post was about many things but me being upset about how other people spend their money was not one of them. You went directly to mis-characeterization because you are avoiding whether or not Gina's comments on the poor and government are accurate. Further, you are also avoiding comments about a central tenet of the Right shown to be BS (poor people are just jealous...that's why they are upset at the rich). That's a lie and you're done telling it as far as I'm concerned. It's a very juvenile way of looking at the very serious problem of inequality.
Now, Hap, you've said that inequality in this country isn't really a problem and you aren't concerned with it all. Yet you own a small business and with less people (or companies) spending money at your firm, one would think this would raise some alarm bells. Since it doesn't, I can only assume (perhaps wrongly) that you are more concerned with adhering to your ideology than growing your business. This would be why I don't want the Right ever being in charge of anything again...at least, the latest version of the Right.
And, if you don't like taxes and how the government spends money, then you have a few choices.
First, you can leave. No one is keeping you here.
Second, you can dedicate time (as many on the right do) to getting people elected who share your beliefs and ideology. Be prepared, however, to have a back up plan if your policies don't work. Moreover, be prepared for a come to Jesus moment when the realization kicks in that maybe you were wrong and the government doing what it does actually helps you in many ways you ignore.
Third, choose neither and live with the consequences.
Feel free to add any other choices that I haven't thought of...
Or 4)
Go Galt. Let it sputter to a stop on its own.
Wow, you spend a lot of time avoiding simple points. Mark sez:
>It's never bothered me that people have more money than I do.
I call that statement bullshit, in my first comment, based on all the bitching you do about people that have more money than you. See how this works? You said something. I think it is a blatantly false thing based on things you have said in the past. I say so. What a normal, mature person might do is either agree and retract, or disagree and explain why. What you do is blather and distract, and try to do anything other than respond to my simple point. Why is that your first instinct any time someone disagrees with something you say?
>This post was about many things but me being upset about how other people spend their money was not one of them.
No, but it was about your claim to not be bothered by people that make more money than you. A claim which seems clearly false to me, so I stated so and gave a different possibility. Which, being a possibility, is why I phrased it as a question. Jesus. This happens every time Grandpa. Maybe you need some warm milk and a nap. Or a brain transplant.
>poor people are just jealous...that's why they are upset at the rich
Did you notice? The headline of the article says that Gina is referring to poor people, but her quote doesn't refer to poor people. It just refers to people that are jealous of rich people. She only talks about poor people later when asked why people are poor. Weird, that. As to whether its a central tenet of the right, (why did you capitalize right?) I find myself really not caring. Experience shows that you'll ascribe anything you possibly can to that convenient bogeyman "the right", and I'm afraid I just can't summon the energy to care. So knock yourself out.
>That's a lie and you're done telling it as far as I'm concerned.
You're going to stop me from saying something I haven't said? Well, good job. I'm sure that of the poor people that are upset with rich people, some are jealous, some are upset for other reasons, and some don't care. For myself, when I was poor, I didn't care - I was too busy trying to become un-poor.
>you are avoiding whether or not Gina's comments on the poor and government are accurate.
Or, more accurately, I don't really care. You'll notice that she inherited her money rather than earning it, so I kind of doubt she's going to be doling out pearls of wisdom. But, you seem very interested in my opinion, so I'll give it:
"If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain,"
Don't see anything objectionable here - being jealous or complaining about rich people (or anything else for that matter) doesn't accomplish much.
"Do something to make more money yourself "
Again, seems like fairly obvious advice. Since complaining doesn't accomplish anything, someone who wants to improve their lot is going to have to work for it.
"spend less time drinking or smoking and socialising, and more time working"
The drinking, smoking, and socializing part is a silly generalization, because not everyone who is jealous of rich people engages in those things. Still, even badly said, she's saying something obvious - if you want to make more money, you might need to spend more time working, which implies less time doing other things. Duh.
She then goes on to encourage people to invest, build businesses in order that they create opportunities for others. Tough to disagree with that. She also castigates anti-business policies that various governments like to engage in, especially those in thrall to magical thinking of the kind that you so often engage in. She does say the s-word - though since there is no context around it, it's hard to know what exactly she is referring to. If it were the US, I'd say she's going to far. Most policies favored by you, for example, aren't socialist, they're just dumb. But for all I know, in Australia, they really are pursuing socialist practices. If they are, then I can't disagree. Finally, she says that rich people that invest in Australia who most help the poor and young. While I think it's a stretch to imply that millionaires and billionaires are the sole source of investment (ie small business owners, who aren't generally millionaires and billionaires to start with) that helps people, investment in general most definitely helps the poor and young more than anything else.
Oh man this has gotten way too long - your serial dishonesty doesn't deserve this detailed of a response..
This post was about many things but me being upset about how other people spend their money was not one of them.
But YOU included the laughably facetious statement that you were not 'upset'.
If you don't think your posts should be 'about' what you say then you should be more circumspect in what you say.
As it is, you did say it and part of what any post is 'about' are those things that YOU say up above in that part of the page called the 'post'.
All your attempt to redirect does is make you look foolish. Errr, more foolish than normal I mean.
I'm upset at the unfair characterization of the poor being lazy and government standing in their way of riches. Obviously, it's a farce and one that is integral to your ideology so it's no wonder that you are trying to muddy the waters here with a mis-characterization of me. Heck, you and Hap aren't even quoting me correctly, substituting the word "spend' for "have." But this is just the kind of conversation you want to have, though, isn't it? Away from the point...let's see if Hap has anything to offer that get's us back on track.
Hap's first comment? More mis-characterization or misunderstanding...next...
You're going to stop me from saying something I haven't said? Well, good job. I'm sure that of the poor people that are upset with rich people, some are jealous, some are upset for other reasons, and some don't care. For myself, when I was poor, I didn't care - I was too busy trying to become un-poor.
Great, I'm glad you think that and I largely agree with your assessment. Sadly, it is not one shared by the Right. It's all about envy because it's all about envy for THEM.
The drinking, smoking, and socializing part is a silly generalization, because not everyone who is jealous of rich people engages in those things.
Silly generalizations...exactly my point...
Most policies favored by you, for example, aren't socialist, they're just dumb.
Well, I suppose we have to start somewhere:)
Oh man this has gotten way too long - your serial dishonesty doesn't deserve this detailed of a response..
It's only serial dishonesty if you create a straw man and mis-characterize what I said and then proceed to get into a comment war on that mis-characterization.
But this sort of comment is more on relevant to the post so I don't get the gripe. You stuck to the points made in the post and said I was off base (in regards to yourself anyway) and made some valid assertions. I don't see why that has to be so difficult.
Obviously, there are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up.
The first and most significant one being that you believe you aren't full of shit. Then we can move on to what critical thinking is - not what you think it is as applied to yourself.
I really don't care what the woman had to say - you do and then pretend that you don't. Good ol' M always ready to play both sides at once.
I've been off on vacation for a couple of weeks and I think I might just stay on vacation from this site until the election. Whether Romney wins or Obama, the country loses - and only mentally deficient lapdogs see it otherwise.
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