Dean Obeidallah put up a great piece after I had put up my take on the Phil Robertson flap. Much better points than I made...
Attention conservatives: you have the right to hate any group you want. Blacks, gays, Muslims, Jews, other sects of Christians, whoever you like. In fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has noted numerous times that the First Amendment guarantees “freedom of thought” in addition to freedoms such as religion and expression. Consequently, you can think as many hateful thoughts as you choose.
But here’s the thing: if you voice those hateful views publicly, you will be held accountable. That’s called personal responsibility. You would think people on the right would be familiar with that concept since they idolize Ronald Reagan, who famously said, “It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”
And words as well. But adolescents don't get this reality.
More good things...
The First Amendment does not provide you immunity. It simply means that the government can’t prevent you from expressing yourself. But once you say something, you will be called to answer for it. This is the same reason Alec Baldwin was fired last month from his MSNBC show for making gay slurs. (Despite claims from the right, Alec Baldwin was indeed criticized publicly by GLADD for his comments.) And it’s the same reason Martin Bashir was pushed out at MSNBC for his horrible comments about Sarah Palin.
Interesting to read of Palin's reaction...
Never one to miss a chance for publicity, Sarah Palin posted on Facebook: “Free speech is an endangered species. Those ‘intolerants’ hatin’ and taking on the Duck Dynasty patriarch for voicing his personal opinion are taking on all of us.” (Only Palin could claim that a person who has just voiced intolerant comments like Robertson is being attacked by “intolerants.”)
Of course, when Martin Bashir made despicable comments about Palin, she didn’t defend him by saying, “Free speech is an endangered species.” Nope, instead she slammed Bashir’s comments as being “vile” and “evil.” And officials at Palin’s political action committee demanded that MSNBC punish Bashir.
Again, adolescent...will they ever grow up?
I would like an answer to Obeidallah's question about the Right and their obsession with other people's anuses. Anyone?
23 comments:
Accountability… what a concept.
But somehow it's "wrong" to point out that God will hold people accountable for their actions. (Nevermind, that Phil explicitly pointed out that it is God that people will have to answer to, not him.)
“For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
— Jesus, Mark 7:21–23
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
— Jesus, John 3:18–20
“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
— Jesus, Luke 12:4–5
So when God says in effect "this will get you in trouble with me", don't you think it's important to pay more attention to what He has to say than to anyone else?
if you voice those hateful views publicly, you will be held accountable
Yes, there is a price to pay for rejecting the world to follow God:
But before all this they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors for my name’s sake. This will be your opportunity to bear witness. Settle it therefore in your minds not to meditate beforehand how to answer, for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict. You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death. You will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But not a hair of your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your lives.
— Jesus, Luke 21:12–19
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
— Jesus, John 15:18–22
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
— James 4:4
So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
— Jesus, Matthew 10:32–33
Gee, what a choice. Accountable to men, or accountable to God? I have made my choice to stand with God, as has Phil Robertson. It's not too late for you, Mark.
Already have, NMN:) But please, do go on...
Already have, NMN:) But please, do go on...
We know. We have read your brand of 'Christianity'. But hey, your covered by Grace...
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
— John 14:24
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
— Matthew 7:21–23
Yeah, it's pretty clear who you're following because you contradict his words. But last I checked, everyone has the ability to choose to follow Jesus as long as they're still breathing.
Oh, now I'm a devil worshiper now, hmm? Man, this just keeps getting better and better. I suggest two or three long comments about how I secretly worship Satan.
I'm still waiting for an answer as to why you are so obsessed with what other people do with their anuses. Why does it bother you so much whether or not other gay people are accountable? Why even point it out in the first place? Can't you just live and let live? After all, that is a bedrock conservative principle, no?
My problem isn't so much which sin people are engaged in (because all people sin). My problem is with people like you directly contradicting scripture and leading people into the wide path that leads to destruction. Even worse is that you demand that those of us who actually follow God abandon the Scriptures and join you. As I've already pointed out, that is not an option.
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”
— Matthew 7:13–15
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
and shrewd in their own sight!
— Isaiah 5:20–21
Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
— Matthew 5:19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
— Revelation 22:18–19
knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
— 2 Peter 1:20–2:3
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.
— Mark 13:22–23
Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
— Galatians 2:4–5
And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
— 2 Corinthians 11:12–15
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
— 2 Timothy 4:1–5
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.
— Titus 1:9–11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
— Titus 2:11–15
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.
— 1 Peter 5:8–9
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.
You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
— 2 Timothy 3:1–17
But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,
“Awake, O sleeper,
and arise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
— Ephesians 5:3–17
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.
— Ephesians 6:10–13
“ ‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.’ ”
— Revelation 2:2
But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent.
— Revelation 2:14–16a
But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.
— Revelation 2:20–21
You know something M, you really deserve NMN's attention.
Not that there is ANY chance of penetrating your own holier than thou shield.
Ask and ye shall receive. A few more please, NMN:)
juris, I'm surprised that you let all this slide with nary a word. As long as it's anti-Markadelphia, it must be good. Some principles you have.
Hey wait...NMN,...is juris going to hell?
You keep posting, and saying things like this:
There's this whole book that comes before Jesus called the Old Testament. It is filled with a bunch of bullshit.
— Markadelphia, September 2013
The Bible is wrong about some things,
— Markadelphia, March 2013
The Bible isn't correct about everything,
— Markadelphia, September 2013
Then there are the atheist arguments against Christianity you keep posting.
By all means, keep posting your attacks against the Bible while claiming to be a Christian. Maybe someday you'll convince someone that you contradict God's Word because you accept it.
Is juris going to hell?
Actually, am I going to hell because I won't follow any of these laws?
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24
But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. ... For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. -- Deuteronomy 22:25-27
City Rape v Country Rape...wow. Thank God Jesus came along and changed all of this nonsense:)
Are really so dense that you don't understand what the difference's mean? Wow. Reading comprehension fail of biblical proportions there.
But GD, it doesn't matter what's actually written. Mark is free to take it any way he prefers. He said so! That makes it not a fail. After all, he is superior to everyone and everything, even the Bible. Right?
Mark, thank you for giving a demonstration of what Peter meant when he discussed twisting the Scriptures. (2nd Peter 3:16)
I'm surprised that you let all this slide with nary a word.
No dog in the fight between a couple of people arguing over who's version of the big invisible friend is correct. I will just note that one actually grounds his arguments in the textual basis for the religion while the other just totally makes shit up as he goes.
That's a pretty cowardly and dishonest statement to make, juris and most uncharacteristic of one who claims to be such a rugged individualist. And an atheist! Sticking together at any cost, including personal principles...
That's a pretty cowardly and dishonest statement to make
What part is dishonest M? You only accuse me of cowardice because I won't drag your ass out of a fight you are losing. That's just a shame, isn't it?
C'mon juris, grow up. You know that adolescent crap doesn't work with me anymore. Is this all you are really about?
C'mon juris, grow up.
So what did I say that was dishonest M?
You do just make up your beliefs as you go, picking and choosing from the Bible things you like and ignoring the rest.
NMN quoted me earlier and I think that quote still sums it up quite sufficiently. So what more would you have me add to the discussion?
You do just make up your beliefs as you go, picking and choosing from the Bible things you like and ignoring the rest.
Ah, you're just saying that crap to childishly taunt me and play the usual games that you guys always play (e.g. accusing me of doing the very thing NMN does to get my goat). You conveniently forget all the textual basis I do provide just to keep the herd intact. And you fail to note how my beliefs are in line with the many other denominations of Christianity.
You don't have a dog in this hunt, fine. But of all the people that comment here, I have more respect for you and your principles regarding religion and politics than anyone else. I guess I just expected more from you. Perhaps I would have engaged more than this had that been the case.
And you fail to note how my beliefs are in line with the many other denominations of Christianity.
Funny, but I just asked in a subsequent thread what denomination of Christianity actually teaches what you claim.
I guess I just expected more from you.
And what exactly did you expect? You know I don't agree with either you or NMN. You didn't just hope I'd wade in and provide cover for you, did you?
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