Monday, November 02, 2009
Wow
I share that fear, and I believe they should be fearful. And I believe the greatest fear that we all should have to our freedom comes from this room, this very room. And what may happen later this week, in terms of a tax increase bill masquerading as a health care bill. I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country.
It makes my heart all warm and fuzzy to know that the right at least aren't trying to hide it anymore. How many times did she use the word "fear?"
Ah well, as long as they are being rational about it and grounding their assertions in facts and logic while strictly adhering to the scientific method.
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13 comments:
I'm not fearful. I am disgusted - both at the politicians who promise rainbow farts from unicorns and idiots in the populace who can't wait for a sniff. I'd be happy for you to get the govt you deserve, but for the fact that I have to live with it too.
Hey Mark, I heard Michelle Bachmann is going to lead citizens on a storm through Congress. I wonder if they'll be armed?
It's not what's in the bill that matters...it's the reaction by the out-of-power party that matters. yawn.
Last, I don't really get your beating of the dead horse regarding the "out of power" party thing. My point has been proven: there are no liberals in this country because the folks with the "D" next to their name are still far too conservative to vote for serious health care reform. Or they have too little of a spine to stand up to the propaganda machine of the right.
Either way, you win, dude. Break out the big drum of boiling oil and have a clam bake.
It isn't a dead horse - it's a fact and you know it.
Last week the excuses were that the bill wasn't named right...the PR is bad...the complexities are too much for some...explanation is difficult. This week the excuses are that democrats are too conservative...they have no spine...the propoganda machine of the right is too strong.
Perhaps some legislators and their constituents don't like the content of your beloved bill. Perhaps what is in the bill isn't the changes they want. Perhaps there is more than 1 definition of "serious health care reform". Perhaps some people are smart enough to realize that the Opt-Out option for states in the new bill is a complete joke (want to try to tell me that a state can simply opt out of the taxes they will have to pay?) Perhaps some people know what happens when the government tries to engage in price fixing.
There are plenty of liberals in this country and in congress - they are just losing the debate right now.
You idiotic little twit? If you want socialism, come out and just say it. Say that you want everyone else to pay for it so you can get it for free. After all, that is what socialism is.... right up to the part in which there is nothing to give when no one keeps producing.
What do you really think is going to happen to health care if the government successfully takes it over? Do you really think it will be a good thing? The only countries with socialized medicine that are wirth a crap are being bankrupted by that very system. If you want a good taste of true socialized medicine, take a trip to a Chinese hospital. Sure... they might save your life if they have to, but you better hope it is durring the day... at night the staff retires to the basement to sleep. And if you wake them, they just asume let you bleed to death for interupting their snooze. Or say you need surgery... hope you have enough to bribe the doctor. Wouldn't want him accidentally leaving something in you when he stitches you back up. Or maybe you just need a room to recover in. Hope you brought your own care staff, as the nurses come round with your medication... mostly on time. And you will be lucky to share that room with about 6 other patients. Can't happen here you say? Think again. It will take time, granted, but it will happen. We are eroding away what this country was founed on and this health care bill is just one more giant portion of the freedom we still have being taken away. be thankful you can still blog about this, eventually you will loose that freedom as well.
Last, it's actually all of the those things AND the fact that our country is center right. If there were "plenty" of liberals in Congress, why can't they get 60 votes? Or over 220 in the House?
So, decide. You can't have it both ways. Either there are plenty of liberals in Congress (quick, hide the kids!) or many of those "liberals" are, in fact, NOT... because our country is more conservative. It's just not conservative enough for the mental patients running the GOP (see: John Birch Society). Speaking of mental patients....
Mr. Bill, I have a request of you. Find the nearest Senior Center in your home town. When they are all together in a group, read to them what your wrote to me and tell them that our founding fathers would want Medicare repealed. Let me know how it works out for you.
Dear Tinkerballs (aka: Marky Boy),
Perhaps we got off to a bad start. You see... I thought I was the big, bad conservitive and you were the liberal whack job. OK... maybe this isn't the best start either.
Let us put our liberal and conservitism aside. What do you believe to be the core that binds us as Americans? What is the underlying 'thing' that allows us to each hold our own opinion so tightly that we diverge into such drasticly different views of what this country should now be? Our founding fathers were a group of middle-aged free thinkers. Each of which carried with him hopes and dreams of establishing a country in which every man, woman and child could live free and celebrate life in the way that they so chose. Yet, while living those independant lives, they would also have to meet on a common ground in a centralized and agreed upon central consept that protect each individual and their freedom from what other individuals would possibly intrude upon with their freedom. They established the central concept and created basic laws by which to protect each individual liberty as well as the liberty of others. It also established a means of punishment for those that would break the rules. To this day that concept still exists. The only problem is that the managers of the center have crept further and further out of the center, and our now treading on the very liberties they were put their to protect.
I realize that when it comes to the subject of Health Care, the natural reaction is one of emotion and compansion... after all, we are talking about the lives of millions of people. And that it would seem cruel for anyone to object to every man, woman and child having a means of getting the needed health care to sustain life. Point of fact this was never a problem prior to government stepping in. Doctors followed the guise of the hypocratic oath to a tee prior to insurance. They would even render free health care if need be, simply because they felt it was their duty to society to take care of them. Then came the insurance companies. Now... this is where you have to understand a bit of history. Private insurance companies arose in reaction to the government placing restrictions on the hiring practises of ship builders (see the history of Kiser Permamente). The responce was insurance, which worked well at first. but then there were the unforseen consequences that crept in. Pretty soon it was discovered that insurance was a pretty good business, and it turned out that it began to influence doctors and how they treated their patients. Pretty soon government was stepping in and telling them what they could and could not do... and as any capatalist enterprise, you find new and more creative ways to make a profit. In the end, the original focus of it all was lost on the most important part of the process... the individuals needing health care.
(continued)
In the end, I would never contest against someone suggesting that the current system is screwed up. Hands down it has its problems, but the question you have to ask is "Who got us to where we are?" I agree privatised insurance is partially to blame, but at the same time I would say that the majority of the blame lays at the feet of our federal government. And now that you would stand before me and say that I should put my faith in the same entity that got us here to now fix the problem seems utterly absurd.
As for the seniors group you refer to, ask them what their opinion is about Medicare. You will get the most common answer which is 'Its better than nothing.' However, ask a senior that is well off and still can afford their own privatised medical insurance and you see a much more satisfied costomer. And I bet you put those two examples side by side and they both wish they had the privatised version and that neither wants the socialised version. So for many of us that have the privatised versions we are appauled when we hear talks of a socialised medical system, as we know that it will not be a great thing for everyone. Yes... it will mean that about 20 - 30 million people that currently do not have insurance will now have it. Only problem is that all of us now able to afford superios privatised versions will loose those version and share in the socialised version with those that will be getting it for free... yet we will be paying for it all. I have no problem taking care of me and mine, I feel honored to do so. And I try to help with what I have left afterwards. I just dont really appreciate anyone that takes my money from me at gun point and tells me I have to pay for everyone elses as well.
To put it simply, take that paycheck you get each week and, rather than putting it into you bank account, go cash it. Then, rather than buying food for you and your family, go buy food for your family and the next family down the street. What happens? Can you still afford to by those favorite cookies you like? Probably not. In order to feed twice as many people on the same ammount of money, the quality and selection of what you get goes drastically down... if you can even afford it. Now aply that to healthcare.
"What do you believe to be the core that binds us as Americans?"
I think it is the concept of freedom. We all are free to make choices on how we live our lives. Nowhere else in the world can an individual do this.
"The only problem is that the managers of the center have crept further and further out of the center, and our now treading on the very liberties they were put their to protect."
This is where you and I part ways. How exactly is the government treading on you? More importantly, how are the corporations of this country NOT treading on you? I see the government as an extension of corporate will. Our country has become a plutonomy...an oligarchy.
The current health plan kicking around Congress contains a public option. It is not single payer, not universal, and the US government would not be the controller of health in this country. At this point, each state is going to be able to opt out of the public option if they so desire. The CBO estimates that only 3 percent of Americans would use the US plan. The rest would stay with their private plan. The impact the public plan is going to have is simply not going to be that great. But because some in this country are hyper paranoid about the government, it's the end of life as we know it.
Here's a question for you...the government is responsible for our common defense, right? So, we do trust them with protecting our homes from enemies abroad. What if an enemy attacks us with a virus? Is the government obliged to protect us?
I think it is the concept of freedom. We all are free to make choices on how we live our lives. Nowhere else in the world can an individual do this.
Ya know, if you would just focus on that a bit more you and I might actually find some common ground.
More importantly, how are the corporations of this country NOT treading on you?
I haven't had anyone from WalMart threaten me if I don't buy stuff from them. But the govt would fine me if I don't buy health insurance (from some corporation, or the govt under the public "option"). Try reading that first sentence of yours I quoted. I mean, you said it - didn't you mean it?
Yes.
If you think that corporations "don't tread on people" think again. The example of health care is an excellent one. Unless you are wealthy, you only have the choice of your employer's medical coverage. Many of them require mandatory testing of your health. Some, as has happened to several people I know, require that they come into your home for blood and urine screening. If you fail certain tests, you are kicked off of the insurance or forced to pay higher premiums.
If you think that corporations "don't tread on people" think again.
Not at all like govt does. Not in the same league. I know YOU don't get that because you work for the state, with tenure no less, and believe it to be all benevolent. No business can fuck over a citizen with even a fraction of the ease with which the govt can. The only people the govt doesn't so easily fuck are govt employees - thus your blind spot.
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