Contributors

Thursday, August 30, 2012

Lyin' Ryan

Paul Ryan unleashed a giant load of wordy squirts last night that truly bring new meaning to breaking the ninth commandment. From FactCheck.org

  • Accused President Obama’s health care law of funneling money away from Medicare “at the expense of the elderly.” In fact, Medicare’s chief actuary says the law “substantially improves” the system’s finances, and Ryan himself has embraced the same savings. 
  • Accused Obama of doing “exactly nothing” about recommendations of a bipartisan deficit commission — which Ryan himself helped scuttle. 
  • Claimed the American people were “cut out” of stimulus spending. Actually, more than a quarter of all stimulus dollars went for tax relief for workers. 
  • Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office. 
  • Blamed Obama for the loss of a AAA credit rating for the U.S. Actually, Standard & Poor’s blamed the downgrade on the uncompromising stands of both Republicans and Democrats.

And this is they guy who the right thinks is thoughtful and intelligent?

Well, at least the "liberal" media has decided not to fall asleep on this one.




26 comments:

GuardDuck said...

I thought you'd post on this....


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/08/30/obama_camp_melts_down_over_ryans_speech

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/08/30/obama_camp_melts_down_over_ryans_speech

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/08/fact-checkers-self-destructing-over-ryan-speech/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LegalInsurrection+%28Le%C2%B7gal+In%C2%B7sur%C2%B7rec%C2%B7tion%29

Mark Ward said...

Does that mean that you disagree with FactCheck?

A. Noni Mouse said...

Yeah, who are you gonna believe? FactCheck? Or Obama?

Facts are facts, Mark. When the facts contradict FactCheck (as they do in this case), then FactCheck is wrong.

-just dave said...

Is FactCheck the holy grail of all that is right and good? One biased person quotes a not very well-informed person and the rest of the herd quote him, without anyone ever bothering to examine the facts?

I was starting a lively retort to your caterwauling on Ryan, which is of course, seen through the kaleidescope that is your perspective on life. But while watching the RNC with the couple talking about Mitt Romney visiting their dying son, helping a 14 year old with his will and eulogy, I couldn't help consider the contrast. Character isn't garnered from pontificating in front of Greek columns to adoring fans but through actions and what is said in quite hospital rooms. The irony I believe is that Mitt Romney needs people to come forward to tell you about the man he is, about things like helping this dying boy. Is there any doubt, that had Barrack Obama the same resume, he'd be promoting them front and center, in his autobiographies, etc?

Mark Ward said...

Is FactCheck the holy grail of all that is right and good?

Would you like me to provide other sources?

I don't doubt that Mitt Romney has done some great things. So has the president. My hope would be that more stories like this are promoted and the lies are left behind. The things that Ryan said simply aren't true, dave. He bore false witness. Take responsibility for it and call him on it.

Anonymous said...

Did you look at the link GD provided?

GuardDuck said...

Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office.


From fact check - it closed in 2009

-just dave said...

It's early...let's just look at one for now.

"I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you've made -- how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you're churning out," Obama said. "And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years." - Barrack Obama, 2/13/08

President Obama said it would stay open and be retooled. GM got plenty of government assistance, but, the plant stopped production in 2008 and outright closed in 2009. It was not retooled.

Should Obama have offered such hope when it was (somewhat) out of his control? Should Kerry & Edwards have offered to make Christopher Reeve walk again?

Mark Ward said...

I don't get it, dave. You guys are supposed to be the party of responsibility and accountability. And yet, when caught in a lie, it's everyone for the exits and the creation of a fictional reality.

The plant closed because of policies (or lack thereof) of the Bush Administration. And the president is blamed for that because he tried to fix it couldn't because of the worst economy since the 1930s?

From fact check - it closed in 2009

the assembly plant shut down on Dec. 23, 2008, at the tail end of the Bush administration, a victim of the financial crisis and dwindling demand for the SUVs produced at the plant. That’s nearly one month before Obama was sworn into office.

About 100 workers were kept on in 2009 to finish a truck order and help shut down the plant, according to the Associated Press.


Here's another source (aside from the BBC link which no one has as of yet commented on)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-gop-conventions-second-night/2012/08/30/128cbe9e-f260-11e1-adc6-87dfa8eff430_blog.html

-just dave said...

So, as you say, they were working on a truck order in 2009...

A later reference, again about Janesville.

"As President, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville." - Barrack Obama

Was the plant retooled as promised? Yes or no?

Mark Ward said...

Obviously not. Does that mean that the president is responsible for its failure, as Ryan intimated? Of course, this is a classic Rove right here because we all know that one of the presidents accomplishments was GM, much to the dismay of the right who, btw, bemoan retooling, right? Which is it?

Suppose someone drives a tank into your house and you hire me to come and fix it. I say that I can. I begin work and realize that not only did he drive a tank into the house but he also dropped a few bombs in the basement and the damage is far worse than I thought. Now, it's my fault that the house can't be fixed?

-just dave said...

"Obviously not."
Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

Now, re-read what Ryan said.

He admitted the plant was already in crisis, didn't blame anyone, and was about to close. He brought up the campaign promis, not that Obama caused the closure, but that the recovery (retooling) that was promised never came to pass.

So you can lament all you want on the "well, it was worse than we thought" mantra. Bill Clinton did and Obama does every day, but, as I have just illustrated, what Ryan said was NOT a lie.

Next...

Mark Ward said...

He brought up the campaign promis, not that Obama caused the closure,

C'mon, dave, you're really reaching. If he had just said, Obama failed on his campaign promise, that would be one thing. He made it very clear that Obama was to blame for the plant closing. Worse, his last line on this subject was a lie as well.

And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.

I have 4 million jobs that says this isn't true. I have a saved GM that says this isn't true.

And you're not addressing my scenario above either.

rld said...

GM isn't out of the financial woods. As Last in line said on here before, their structural issues that caused their problems are still there. All they got was some cash to prolong things a little bit.

-just dave said...

He made it very clear that Obama did not provide the relief promised, be it for Janesvillie or lots of places. That is what he said and that is not a lie. Anything more is just the little voices telling you how he's "intimating" this or that rather than just listening.

I'm not addressing your tank scenario as its neither here nor there, just a deflection because you lost the argument.

Mark Ward said...

Oh right, I forgot. If you declare it to be true, then it must be. And, wait, I thought I was waayyyy off base when I said that all the right cares about is winning the argument. Oh well...

Since we aren't getting anywhere on this one, what about the other four lies?

GuardDuck said...

OK.

Accused President Obama’s health care law of funneling money away from Medicare “at the expense of the elderly.” In fact, Medicare’s chief actuary says the law “substantially improves” the system’s finances, and Ryan himself has embraced the same savings.

Will Forbes be acceptable?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/08/16/fact-checking-the-obama-campaigns-defense-of-its-716-billion-cut-to-medicare/


Accused Obama of doing “exactly nothing” about recommendations of a bipartisan deficit commission — which Ryan himself helped scuttle.

From my previous link:

The debt commission - What Ryan said is absolutely correct. The Obama ad quotes Chris Wallace, who notes that Ryan was on that commission and voted against it. True. He refused to abide the section maintaining Obamacare, and voted no on its final findings. Still, he was intimately involved in the group's deliberations and proposed solutions. Not fully happy with the final outcome, he went on to craft two budgets of his own, with numerous elements based on the Simpson-Bowles framework. The commission's Democratic co-chairman (Bowles of Simpson-Bowles) has praised Ryan's proposals to the hilt. Barack Obama, who convened the commission in the first place after deriding commissions on the campaign trail, completely ignored its recommendations and proceeded to propose to wildly reckless, debt-busting budgets that received a total of zero votes in either house of Congress. Correctly asserting that Ryan opposed the final Simpson-Bowles recommendations is no way absolves Obama for his demonstrable abdication of leadership on these issues. It's more smoke and mirrors -- and more petty Obama blame, another central theme of Ryan's address.

-just dave said...

More?

Well, take the supposed “lie” on Medicare. Obamacare does indeed cut Medicare, Democrats aren't even arguing that anymore. But, for those clingers out there...per the CBO, the payment cuts in Medicare include:
A $260 billion payment cut for hospital services.
A $39 billion payment cut for skilled nursing services.
A $17 billion payment cut for hospice services.
A $66 billion payment cut for home health services.
A $33 billion payment cut for all other services.
A $156 billion cut in payment rates in Medicare Advantage
$56 billion in cuts for disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments.
$114 billion in other provisions pertaining to Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP

Additionally, the chief actuary for the Medicare program has projected that, by the end of this decade, 15 percent of facilities will have to stop taking Medicare patients because of said cuts.

Is this fact of fiction? Well, as some who'd worked in the health care industry for nearly 10 years, I can tell you that, particularly over the last years, only 1 in 4 appointments was reserved for Medicare patients. Why? Because it was becoming less and less affordable for the doctors to see them.

So you're left with, “Oh, the Ryan Budget cuts Medicare too...” Well, no, it doesn't. The Ryan budget spells this out in spending tables and a simple narrative on page 54.

Or is your point that it's not a cut because it's just a reduction in the rate of increase? If that's the case, we can all have a big laugh for all the time the phrase “draconian cuts” was used by Democrats to characterize spending reductions in Republican proposals.

Mark Ward said...

Regarding Medicare, Ryan said:

And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly. … [T]hey just took it all away from Medicare, $716 billion funneled out of Medicare by President Obama.

That's not true. There was no money taken away from Medicare. If he had said, "President Obama is cutting the money spent to providers by Medicare" he would've been more accurate. Further, if he had explained that the president is trying to do something about the rising expense of Medicare (just as Ryan supposedly is), he would've been telling the truth.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/medicares-piggy-bank/

I think it's fine to have a debate on whether or not this reduction in spending is going to affect people in the program. Let's start with the most recent report of the trustees and the Medicare actuary.

" [Obama's] Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook …"

Isn't that the stated goal of Ryan and the rest of the GOP? You?

Because it was becoming less and less affordable for the doctors to see them.

If that's the case, then what policies have been put in place over the last few years that have made this to be so? No one will argue that Medicare needs to be changed. From my view, anything should be on the table to save the program.

But to go around bloviating about how social programs are terrible and people should rely less on the government and then turn around and say Obama is cutting Medicare, well, that's doubly dishonest.

I'd like to see the CBO report on your numbers as well.

A. Noni Mouse said...

Hello, Marky?!? Are you still in this reality?

Go back to GD's first link. Watch the Barak Obama interview. Notice what's right at the beginning:

Interviewer: "…one third of the funding [for Obamacare] comes from cuts to Medicare."

Obama: "Right"

Why are you disputing what even Obama agrees with?

You've heard (and ignored) it before, but here it is again. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own FACTS!!

Mark Ward said...

Are the cuts to Medicare or are they spending cuts to providers?

A. Noni Mouse said...

You really need to think about your own question, Mark.

Anonymous said...

How far can he redefine terms until some part of his argument finally is correct? Ha ha. By the way M, that logic won't work it's way back up your illogic chain. What a dupe!

Mark Ward said...

Look, Noni, if you want to have a serious discussion about reducing the growth of spending to Medicare providers and the possible implications (good or bad) of that action, I'm all for it. That means an equal give and take of evidence examined in an unbiased way.

If you can't do that, let's not waste each other's time with the games.

-just dave said...

I don't feel up to arguing today. I don't believe its an outright lie, but I'll grant that he's playing fast & loose with the facts. But as this is a political rally & not a detailed policy session, i give him some leeway...just as Obama will play fast & loose with the facts to whip up his base.

Mark Ward said...

I'm sure he will. The lie of the year last year from Politifact was Ryan throwing the old lady off the cliff. That's true, it was a lie.

I'd rather have a serious discussion about the implications of a voucher system or reduced increases to providers and what those possible effects might be then scream about seniors being thrown under the bus.